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Poyo
25th February 2007, 02:19 PM
Ive started a pure dex archer and I'm looking for anny suggestions or comments on him. Thank you.
http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/1007/maple0001up2.th.jpg (http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maple0001up2.jpg)

ElderDragon
25th February 2007, 04:20 PM
There really aren't too many suggestions to make as I haven't met any dex-only archers.

Unlike luk-less mages, I don't think str-less archers can maintain the damage difference.

On a side note, str stabilizes your damage somewhat and has other functions towards damage as well, I wonder how you'd be affected by having none - is your minimum damage lower ?

robertboyle
25th February 2007, 05:30 PM
maybe im being really stupid, but surly you cant really maoke one unless you have a maple crossbow and maple crow ...

MagicalBow
25th February 2007, 08:05 PM
1 - Get a Maple weapon of some sort.
2 - Your damage is gonna be weaker than a normal archer till level 35, then you'll be stronger till around 60, which is probably when you're around the same or weaker.
3 - No STR means that your damage will be more unstable compared to a normal archer until you get Mastery, and then your damage will be higher because of the Maple item.
4 - It's not gonna work out too well.

Julliant
25th February 2007, 08:20 PM
Not recommended unless you are experienced with gameplay.

Basically the guys above said most of it.

You will use a melee weapon until Lv 35, use a Maple Bow, Lv 43 use a Maple Soul Searcher, Lv 65 Bow of Magical Destruction.

Here's a damage comparison:
http://forums.asiasoft.net/thread.asp?qid=995947

Pure DEX is a good choice if you know what you are doing, because you will do better damage for the early 80 levels, but if you want to stick to Pure DEX for the rest of your maple career, you will be handicapped at high levels.

MagicalBow
25th February 2007, 09:24 PM
Stupid KMS and no BoMD -_-

Poyo
26th February 2007, 01:08 AM
I do plan to scroll my hunter bow with 100% till lvl 35 then ill switch over to the maple bow which ill scroll with 10-30%.It might be hard trek but I like to try something new.

SpiraeaKozak
26th February 2007, 10:38 AM
str-less can be a path but never the destination.

if you have support from friends or from another character, power level your str-less archer all the way to level 35 by means of leeching or exchange quest. thereafter, use a normal maple bow before switching to maple soulsearcher at level 43.

you will enjoy swift leveling all the way to third job. at level 75, you will have to start adding STR only. this will facilitate the transition from your maple soulsearcher to a metus.

ElderDragon
27th February 2007, 04:19 AM
Simply put, it's not worth it.

SpiraeaKozak
27th February 2007, 10:19 AM
it would be... we have maple series weapons for level 35 and 43...

if Wizet decides to make level 120 maple series stuff... all normal archers will cry... imagine a lv 120 Maple Long Bow (WA 103 ~ 117) and a lv 120 Maple Balista (WA 106 ~ 110)

o.O

ElderDragon
27th February 2007, 11:38 PM
The number of lvl 120+ is relatively small, with julliant being the only archer on this forums who would be affected by lvl 120 weapons.

I know you're 112, but in the same time it'd take you to get to 120, I'd get to 95+. And anyway, as long as your damage is good and you have fun, who cares if there's a small group of people doing more than you ?

SpiraeaKozak
28th February 2007, 05:20 PM
well you are level 82... to get to level 95, it would take me about... 4 days.

to get me to 120? it would take me 4 weeks!

ElderDragon
28th February 2007, 09:21 PM
I meant it'd take ME the same time to get to 95 as it would you to 120.

Also, if it takes you only 4 days to go 13 lvl's at the 8x+ range, I'm pretty sure you're either hacking, sharing the account with someone, or going sleep-less for 4 days in a mad frenzy to lvl up without food or drink.

SpiraeaKozak
1st March 2007, 12:12 AM
I meant it'd take ME the same time to get to 95 as it would you to 120.

Also, if it takes you only 4 days to go 13 lvl's at the 8x+ range, I'm pretty sure you're either hacking, sharing the account with someone, or going sleep-less for 4 days in a mad frenzy to lvl up without food or drink.

personally, i trained from 68 to 89 in 1 week. 3 levels a day. thats 18 hours a day with a priest around my level. btw, its in mapleSEA, so i have x2 exp card.

now... i am working so i play about 1 to 3% a day.... sadness

ElderDragon
1st March 2007, 01:16 AM
:eek:

18 hours a day is about 6 times more than what I can play during the weekda y and about 3 times more than what I can play during the weekend (pre day).

Also, I don't know how priests and i/l mage's training speed compares.

And 2x exp cards just make me mad :mad:

On a side note, I could be 92+ right about now if I wasn't play on my xbow (I want a sniper sooooo bad).

SpiraeaKozak
1st March 2007, 09:04 PM
Snipers and Rangers are nice. But if you are out for the range, speed and damage, you should go make a hermit.

Hermits do more damage than Snipers, faster than Rangers.

ElderDragon
1st March 2007, 11:12 PM
Meh, I don't like to jump-shoot that much and bowmen skills look cooler to me.

Plus, everyone is a hermit, I prefer to be original - also, xbow's look cooler than anything hermit's have except for steelys and most high-lvl ones use ilbis.

ChappyHappy
2nd March 2007, 03:57 AM
Arent there lvl70 Maple Weapons that would help?
Would because I know they're not out.
But I dunno their watk and req either.

Julliant
2nd March 2007, 05:51 AM
Arent there lvl70 Maple Weapons that would help?
Would because I know they're not out.
But I dunno their watk and req either.


Taiwan exclusive. Until they change their minds.

ElderDragon
2nd March 2007, 06:48 AM
So taiwan has lvl 70 maple items ? :eek:

FatalJoker
2nd March 2007, 02:31 PM
I'm suggesting that you shld quit.

ElderDragon
2nd March 2007, 04:10 PM
Wtf ? Don't say weird stuff like that randomly.

SpiraeaKozak
2nd March 2007, 04:23 PM
its not random... the survival of pure dex is heavily dependent on whether wizet releases maple weapons

ElderDragon
2nd March 2007, 05:02 PM
I'm suggesting that you shld quit.

My previous post was in response to that, not your comment about maple weapons.

FatalJoker
3rd March 2007, 03:17 PM
SpireaKozak's reponse was also according to my post.
Pure DEX is not practical.
Due to: 1.82STR = 1 DEX
So quit yr Pure DEX archer.

ElderDragon
4th March 2007, 04:48 AM
I'm not sure what just happened, but the "you should just quit" comment is inappropriate no matter what it was in response to.

Quitting is for quitters :cool:

SpiraeaKozak
5th March 2007, 12:37 PM
Pure Dex for archer's is just not nearly as good as Pure STR, Pure LUK or Pure INT for warrior, thief or mage.

ElderDragon
5th March 2007, 02:26 PM
Well said SpiraeaKozak :D

FatalJoker
8th March 2007, 10:18 PM
Lets compare the losers of the Pure AP...
Pure INT and Pure DEX both get only 24.6% more main base AP than normal. Pure DEX is even more at the lose out when 1.82STR =1 DEX. Not to mention that overalls do not require DEX and that the value of the difference between MA VS WA in comparison with the base AP and the total output MA/Damage.
Pure INT alreadys starts winning from lvl 25, but for Pure DEX, its 65. Pure INT loses out at 100+ but Pure DEX loses out at lvl 90. Pure DEX is the worst of the Pure APs and only wins meagrely for 25 lvls. Pure DEX is also more unstable than Normal DEX.
Is Pure DEX worth it? -NO
Besides, your STR is already too high for a Pure DEX Ranger.
I dun understand why after SpireaKozak said this against you:

Pure Dex for archer's is just not nearly as good as Pure STR, Pure LUK or Pure INT for warrior, thief or mage.
You still complimented him for disagreeing with your idea. Perhaps you may have misinterpretated his post.
Let me tell you the truth - Pure DEX gets owned
I seriously recomend that you quit.

ElderDragon
8th March 2007, 11:12 PM
Wtf ? Stop telling people to quit. God, you're such a noob.

FatalJoker
11th March 2007, 03:55 PM
Well then, I'll see how long you take to realise that Pure DEX is inferior to Normal STR.

ElderDragon
11th March 2007, 04:14 PM
What ? I said that pure dex would be worse than normal in the beginning......

Kygre
11th March 2007, 04:18 PM
Why should someone quit just because someone says so?

People can do whatever they want, not your concern. You may not want to make a pure DEX, but the topic poster certainly wants to and is doing already.

ElderDragon
11th March 2007, 04:22 PM
No one has to quit anything.......

Well, fataljoker has to quit being a jackass.

The author wanted to know your thoughts about it. Politely saying you don't think it's a good idea would have sufficed. Next time you wanna go tell someone to quit something, why don't you just mosey over to sleepywood forums instead ?

ArnZein
11th March 2007, 04:30 PM
I think this is kind of like a STR mage, people do it for fun.

MagicalBow
11th March 2007, 05:22 PM
IMO it's not really like a STR Magicians because the main purpose of the Archer is the same, to stay from a distance and snipe monsters without missing. Nothing but the AP and weapon choice changes. STR Magicians complete change the style of the Magician, and compared to a normal Magician, you won't do as much damage, but it's still fun (Let's face it, you aren't gonna do 500-600 damage consistently at level 30). DEX Archers are actually viable, just out of the ordinary and have some disadvantages.

FatalJoker
12th March 2007, 06:23 AM
What ? I said that pure dex would be worse than normal in the beginning......
Do you know only at wad lvl your dmg would be higher than normal and at wad lvl your damage will drop again?
Unless yure making something like a STR cleric which is not for more damage, carry on, but I dun see much fun in wielding a BomD forever.

ElderDragon
12th March 2007, 09:25 AM
When I said "beginning" I meant start of this thread......

ArnZein
12th March 2007, 09:32 AM
IMO it's not really like a STR Magicians because the main purpose of the Archer is the same, to stay from a distance and snipe monsters without missing. Nothing but the AP and weapon choice changes. STR Magicians complete change the style of the Magician, and compared to a normal Magician, you won't do as much damage, but it's still fun (Let's face it, you aren't gonna do 500-600 damage consistently at level 30). DEX Archers are actually viable, just out of the ordinary and have some disadvantages.

I'm not talking about damage at all. I'm saying people like to try and do different things for fun. He might not even care if his damage sucks, maybe he just wants to be different, or just wants to have fun.

ElderDragon
12th March 2007, 11:12 PM
There's "doing something fun" and there's wasting your time.

STR mages are fun because they're possible, this would just turn to be a weak waste of time.

SpiraeaKozak
13th March 2007, 04:31 PM
Str-less for bowman will only work when str-less bows of higher levels are released.

alternatively, make DEX count more.

for all jobs, WA is more important... but the degree of importance when compared with the primary stat will determine whether a pure AP build is viable.

for thieves, LUK is not that much less significant than WA, and same for Warriors. sacrifising a small amount of WA for more LUK or STR will yield positive results

but for bowmen, DEX is rubbish compared to WA, which is why there is absolutely no point in sacrifising WA for more DEX.

Poyo
14th March 2007, 08:24 AM
Well its always fun to try soething rare and differnt in games. For example: No luk mages, there are some but its still a rare sight and many ppl chose not to do it this way because its hard and differnt which is overwhelming to some ppl, but if you try its may be fun in the end.(My friend has a lvl 4x str-less archer and hes doing preety good)

ElderDragon
14th March 2007, 08:51 AM
Luk-less mages aren't harder, they're easier. Stats are just everything into int and you barely ever buy any equips, plus you're stronger so training is easier.

Tell your sister to quit her STR-less bowmen, dex for bowmen is worse than weapon attack, which means with higher lvl weapons I'll still be stronger (a normal bowmen of the same lvl and job).

slightlyoddguy
14th March 2007, 11:20 AM
There's "doing something fun" and there's wasting your time.

STR mages are fun because they're possible, this would just turn to be a weak waste of time.

And now I disagree with you. With a good BOMD, a STRless bowman is entirely feasible, much more so than a STR mage. Yes, they will lose out to the regular builds later on, but hardly to the degree STR mages lose out to regular mages. STRless bowmen can still equip all of the bowman armor; the only difference between the two will be the higher weapon atk of the regular build and the higher DEX of the STRless build.

So yeah, the STRless build is hardly a waste of time, especially considering the possibility of future no stat requirement items.

MagicalBow
14th March 2007, 07:40 PM
I think STR-less is feasible, just not practical. LUK-less Magicians have significant advantage over normal Magicians, such as extra MP, stronger attack, and cheaper equipment cost (in the long run). STR-less doesn't have many bonuses compared to normal STR, but it'll still work. It's not like a STR Magician where you're no match for a normal Magician at the beginning and later on. Though STR-less Bowmen don't have many advantages, I don't think it's right to say it's a waste of time. It might be more fun, and it's stronger for a certain period of time.

ElderDragon
15th March 2007, 01:36 AM
And now I disagree with you. With a good BOMD, a STRless bowman is entirely feasible, much more so than a STR mage. Yes, they will lose out to the regular builds later on, but hardly to the degree STR mages lose out to regular mages. STRless bowmen can still equip all of the bowman armor; the only difference between the two will be the higher weapon atk of the regular build and the higher DEX of the STRless build.

So yeah, the STRless build is hardly a waste of time, especially considering the possibility of future no stat requirement items.

Int is more useful than magic attack, which is what the mage weapons provide. Dex, on the other hand, is not more useful than weapon attack. Maybe with a good BOWM they'll stay stronger than me, but by 8x I'll be stronger again and you just wasted your time on a probably minimal damage boost.

Unlike most other jobs, where their "damage stat" (str for warrior, luk for thief, int for mage) gives more actual damage, dex is worse than weapon attack to a bowmen - otherwise, dex glove scrolls would be worth much more than they are now.

STR mages and STR bowmen aren't the same thing. STR mages discard the 2 vital stats for third stat that'd create an entirely new experience. STR bowmen just discard the 2nd of the 2 vital stats, hoping to increase the first, which is directly related to damage.

friedmaggots
15th March 2007, 11:02 AM
wellll. i have a str-less archer and its doing really good actually.

please correct me if im wrong but isnt the only purpose of adding str to your bowman is so that you can equip bows? dex adds to our accuracy and our power, and being str-less does not prevent us from wearing wa gloves.

it is a challenge at the beginning and also at the early 50s and late 60s but isnt that the point of playing a rarely played character? for the challenge? i know i chose to play a str-less archer for that.

im currently level72 and loving it. i play msea so we have BoMD ^^ and my looks and damage are both sexayyy.

just my two cents.

SpiraeaKozak
15th March 2007, 11:13 AM
And now I disagree with you. With a good BOMD, a STRless bowman is entirely feasible, much more so than a STR mage. Yes, they will lose out to the regular builds later on, but hardly to the degree STR mages lose out to regular mages. STRless bowmen can still equip all of the bowman armor; the only difference between the two will be the higher weapon atk of the regular build and the higher DEX of the STRless build.

Have you considered a metus equally well scrolls compared to a BOMD?

Also, you cannot compare STR-Mages with STR-less Bowmen. STR-Mages would be the equivalent of INT-Bowmen.

STR-Mages increase a useless stat. Obviously they become very useless.
STR-less Bowmen do not increase a less useful stat. Obviously they get some form of advantage from the stats point of view...


So yeah, the STRless build is hardly a waste of time, especially considering the possibility of future no stat requirement items.

It IS a waste of time. There is a possibility of no stat equipment but even at level 200, the advantage of STR-less vs normal would be an extra 200 DEX. Do note that there is a loss of 200 STR also.

Using damage formulas: 3.4 x .9 x .9 for min damage and 3.4 for max damage, 1 DEX is equivalent to 3.077 STR. So, the lack of 200 STR is equivalent to 65 DEX. You advantage over normal builds would be 135 DEX.

135 DEX is roughly equal to 30 WA.

This means that if there are level 200 weapons, there has to be a level 140 stat-less weapon to match up.

Using K for level of normal weapon and Y for statless weapon, and the formula

Y =((((K/3.007)-K)/LOG(K/8,2)*2)+K)

Level of normal Weapon - Level of statless weapon to match
200 - 142
190 - 134
180 - 127
170 - 119
160 - 111
150 - 103
140 - 95
130 - 87
120 - 79
110 - 71 (as of now, there are level 110 normal bows and level 65 statless)
100 - 63
90 - 56
80 - 48
70 - 40
60 - 32

As of now, the matching is still ok because even though statless overall loses by about 3 WA, the availability of BOMDs exceed Dragon Shine Bows and therefore the probability of getting a better scrolled BOMD is higher.


Int is more useful than magic attack, which is what the mage weapons provide. Dex, on the other hand, is not more useful than weapon attack. Maybe with a good BOWM they'll stay stronger than me, but by 8x I'll be stronger again and you just wasted your time on a probably minimal damage boost.

Unlike most other jobs, where their "damage stat" (str for warrior, luk for thief, int for mage) gives more actual damage, dex is worse than weapon attack to a bowmen - otherwise, dex glove scrolls would be worth much more than they are now.

STR mages and STR bowmen aren't the same thing. STR mages discard the 2 vital stats for third stat that'd create an entirely new experience. STR bowmen just discard the 2nd of the 2 vital stats, hoping to increase the first, which is directly related to damage.

I agree, except that you do not catch up with STR-less bowmen's damage at level 80+. Its most probably at level 90. Comparing good equips (but not insanely godly)

Level 90
Helm - 5 Stats
Earring - 8 Stats
Cape - 2 WA 10 Stats
Glove - 12 WA
Shoe - 5 Stats
Overall - 25 Stats
Weapon - 104 WA vs 93 WA

Base Stats: 372 DEX 95 STR vs 463 DEX 4 STR
Total Stats: 425 DEX 95 STR 118 WA vs 506 DEX 4 STR 107 WA
Average Damage: 1425 vs 1421

The difference is minimal at level 90.

SpiraeaKozak
15th March 2007, 11:17 AM
wellll. i have a str-less archer and its doing really good actually.

please correct me if im wrong but isnt the only purpose of adding str to your bowman is so that you can equip bows? dex adds to our accuracy and our power, and being str-less does not prevent us from wearing wa gloves.

it is a challenge at the beginning and also at the early 50s and late 60s but isnt that the point of playing a rarely played character? for the challenge? i know i chose to play a str-less archer for that.

im currently level72 and loving it. i play msea so we have BoMD ^^ and my looks and damage are both sexayyy.

just my two cents.

wierd. your damage is at the highest advantage at level 35 to 65 due to the stat less weapons at level 35, 43 and 65.

the advantage would drag on for another 20 levels till 85 before it equalizes with normal build.

Basically

Level 1 to 20: Same
Level 20 to 35: Slightly poorer than normal Archer
Level 35 to 65: Very much stronger than normal Archer
Level 65 to 75: Stronger than normal Archer
Level 75 to 85: Slightly stronger than normal Archer
Level 85 to 95: Same
Level 95 and above: Weaker than normal Archer

DarkPhive
15th March 2007, 11:24 AM
Wouldn't it be a good idea to pump DEX after lvl 25 until you get maple weapons, then keep pumping DEX until lvl 50 then switch back to a normal build.
Or am I missing something o_O?

SpiraeaKozak
15th March 2007, 11:48 AM
Wouldn't it be a good idea to pump DEX after lvl 25 until you get maple weapons, then keep pumping DEX until lvl 50 then switch back to a normal build.
Or am I missing something o_O?

well... duh

you only add str if you intend to change weapon...

its like if you got a godly scrolled viper, and you intend to use it till level 60, then you stop adding strength at 40 and wait till level 55 before adding 5 STR a level ending up with 65 str at level 60 to change to an asianic!

and then you scroll your asianic and it turns out great. you keep your strength at 65 until level 76 and add all STR till level 80 so you can wear the next godly weapon if you have one: arund.

the same goes. str is only used for wearing your weapon. just time it such that you have enough points to put into str before you get your next weapong. it is dumb, VERY dumb to put in 1 str everytime you level.

even if you intend to keep changing bows every 10 levels, add all dex for 8 then all str for 2.

ElderDragon
16th March 2007, 02:35 AM
wellll. i have a str-less archer and its doing really good actually.

please correct me if im wrong but isnt the only purpose of adding str to your bowman is so that you can equip bows? dex adds to our accuracy and our power, and being str-less does not prevent us from wearing wa gloves.

it is a challenge at the beginning and also at the early 50s and late 60s but isnt that the point of playing a rarely played character? for the challenge? i know i chose to play a str-less archer for that.

im currently level72 and loving it. i play msea so we have BoMD ^^ and my looks and damage are both sexayyy.

just my two cents.

Your damage will be higher, but normal will eventually catch up, and beat you, unless they release new 100+ bows/xbows that don't require strength. Dex does boost your damage, but the weapon attack from bows/xbows will overpower it eventually. I know lvl 90 may not be a goal for some of you, but I intend on getting to at least 100 on my xbow before I quit maple.

SpiraeaKozak
16th March 2007, 10:26 AM
Always aim for the end.

Eldrag, how come u train 3 chars to such a high level?

Personally, i only have

113 Sniper - Main Char
77 Priest - My GF's Char but I train most of it.
35 Hunter - Leveled from 10 to 35 on zombie's lost tooth.
33 Fire/Poison Wizard - Secondary Char
30 Thief - Secondary Char
17 Warrior - Fame/Defame/Storage
16 Archer - Fame/Defame/Storage
16 Warrior - Fame/Defame/Storage
15 Warrior - Fame/Defame/Storage
12 Beginner - Secondary Char
10 Beginner - Storage
10 Beginner - Storage
9 Beginner - Storage

ElderDragon
17th March 2007, 01:38 AM
I don't give up easily and I know what I want. Here's a little description of why I have what I have:

I like mages (magic/fantasy are why I play these games) so I made an ice/lightning mage because my friend told me they train fast when I started. I couldn't just leave it as a wizard, so I got it to 3rd job. I put 1 into every attack skill, and now I'm bored of it - incidentally, I got hacked and I changed the password; now I'm waiting for a pin reset.


I went on a friend's 109 sniper and I loved using strafe and all the other skills, so I promised myself I'd get a 1xx sniper too. I started it, got it to 6x, then quit maple for a little bit to focus on school. When I came back, I was bored of my xbow, so I started a dk. After I got that to 82 (more on that later), I decided it was time to finish my sniper-to-be. Ironically, I forgot the pin to my dk and I'm just waiting for that to be reset as well.

Since I was bored of my sniper, I started a dk because that was the only warrior I decided was worth it. I had played a friend's brother's 94 sader and I hated their skills and pages just seemed weak, so I went for the cool crusher animation. I accidentally forgot the pin and I'm waiting for it to be reset, so I went back to my xbow with a new zeal and now I'm determined to get it to 8x.

I did make a 1xx priest with my gf, but I broke up with her because our relationship was going nowhere, and she deleted it to get back at me (I made it for her so she could do something with me). After that, I decided I'd had enough of clerics/priests, and I didn't feel like trying again.

I warriors because of all that melee, bandits/sins are too slow to train, clerics are too weak, fire mages too slow, and rangers too weak. I would like to one day make a CB, but because of their "slowness", I doubt it'll happen.

And that, is a short synopsis on why I only have 3 high lvl characters.

FatalJoker
17th March 2007, 07:10 PM
Basically

Level 1 to 20: Same
Level 20 to 35: Slightly poorer than normal Archer
Level 35 to 65: Very much stronger than normal Archer
Level 65 to 75: Stronger than normal Archer
Level 75 to 85: Slightly stronger than normal Archer
Level 85 to 95: Same
Level 95 and above: Weaker than normal Archer
Last mth I calculated that at lvl 35 theres a 1.x% advantage. at lvl 43 theres a 3.x% advantage and at lvl 65 theres a 14.x% advantage. Therefore, your "Very much stronger than normal Archer" is untrue...

FatalJoker
17th March 2007, 07:16 PM
wellll. i have a str-less archer and its doing really good actually.

please correct me if im wrong but isnt the only purpose of adding str to your bowman is so that you can equip bows? dex adds to our accuracy and our power, and being str-less does not prevent us from wearing wa gloves.

it is a challenge at the beginning and also at the early 50s and late 60s but isnt that the point of playing a rarely played character? for the challenge? i know i chose to play a str-less archer for that.

im currently level72 and loving it. i play msea so we have BoMD ^^ and my looks and damage are both sexayyy.

just my two cents.
FYI, dun see STR like the LUK of mages and DEX of assassins.
While for Mage 1 INT=5 LUK
And for Assassins Infinite DEX=0 LUK
For Archers its 1 DEX=1.82STR
So STR plays quite a big part.

FatalJoker
17th March 2007, 07:19 PM
I agree, except that you do not catch up with STR-less bowmen's damage at level 80+. Its most probably at level 90. Comparing good equips (but not insanely godly)

Level 90
Helm - 5 Stats
Earring - 8 Stats
Cape - 2 WA 10 Stats
Glove - 12 WA
Shoe - 5 Stats
Overall - 25 Stats
Weapon - 104 WA vs 93 WA

Base Stats: 372 DEX 95 STR vs 463 DEX 4 STR
Total Stats: 425 DEX 95 STR 118 WA vs 506 DEX 4 STR 107 WA
Average Damage: 1425 vs 1421

The difference is minimal at level 90.Hmmm. Last mth I caluclated that Pure DEX loses by 1.x% at lvl 90.

FatalJoker
17th March 2007, 07:21 PM
I'm not talking about damage at all. I'm saying people like to try and do different things for fun. He might not even care if his damage sucks, maybe he just wants to be different, or just wants to have fun.
Seriously, wads so fun about wielding a BomD? Even a sniper can wield it.

ElderDragon
18th March 2007, 09:26 PM
What the F%&@ ?!?!?!?

Why didn't you put all 3 of your posts into 1 ?

SpiraeaKozak
19th March 2007, 06:22 PM
Last mth I calculated that at lvl 35 theres a 1.x% advantage. at

lvl 43 theres a 3.x% advantage and at lvl 65 theres a 14.x% advantage. Therefore, your "Very

much stronger than normal Archer" is untrue...

depends on how you put in the equips =D

lets count naked with average weapons then =D

for weapons used more than 15 levels, 100% scrolls will be added in from the beginning,

for weapons used more than 25 levels, 60% scrolls will be added in from the beginning.

for weapons that will be used forever, 3 x 30% scrolls are added along with 4 x 60% scrolls.

this is inaccurate as
- not all normal archers will change weapon all the time
- scrolling weapons maybe better than changing. in this calculation, changing was used. i will evaluate the cost involved and come up with a better match next time

Level 10: Warbow (scrolled 60%) vs Spear
Str-less: 58 DEX 4 STR 39 WA -> 8 ~ 78 (ave 43)
Normal: 42 DEX 20 STR 32 WA -> 15 ~ 45 (ave 30)
Advantage: +43.3%

Level 15: Warbow (scrolled) vs Composite Bow
Str-less: 83 DEX 4 STR 39 WA -> 11 ~ 111 (ave 61)
Normal: 67 DEX 20 STR 30 WA -> 12 ~ 74 (ave 43)
Advantage: +41.9%

Level 20: Warbow (scrolled) vs Hunter's Bow
Str-less: 108 DEX 4 STR 39 WA -> 14 ~ 144 (ave 79)
Normal: 88 DEX 25 STR 35 WA -> 18 ~ 113 (ave 65.5)
Advantage: +20.6%

Level 25: Warbow (scrolled) vs Battle Bow
Str-less: 133 DEX 4 STR 39 WA -> 17 ~ 177 (ave 97)
Normal: 107 DEX 30 STR 40 WA -> 25 ~ 157 (ave 91)
Advantage: +6.6%

Level 30: Warbow (scrolled) vs Ryden
Str-less: 158 DEX 4 STR 39 WA -> 21 ~ 220 (ave 115.5)
Normal: 129 DEX 35 STR 45 WA -> 33 ~ 213 (ave 123)
Advantage: -6.1%

Level 35: Maple Bow vs Maple Bow
Str-less: 183 DEX 4 STR 48 WA -> 136 ~ 300 (ave 218)
Normal: 153 DEX 35 STR 48 WA -> 129 ~ 266 (ave 197.5)
Advantage: +10.4%

Level 43: Maple Soul Searcher (scrolled 100%) vs Maple Soul Searcher
Str-less: 223 DEX 4 STR 65 WA -> 268 ~ 495 (ave 381.5)
Normal: 193 DEX 35 STR 58 WA -> 225 ~ 400 (ave 312.5)
Advantage: +22.1%

Level 50: Maple Soul Searcher (scrolled) vs Olympus
Str-less: 258 DEX 4 STR 65 WA -> 310 ~ 572 (ave 441)
Normal: 208 DEX 55 STR 65 WA -> 283 ~ 495 (ave 389)
Advantage: +13.4%

Level 55: Maple Soul Searcher (scrolled) vs Cao Cao Bow
Str-less: 283 DEX 4 STR 65 WA -> 340 ~ 628 (ave 484)
Normal: 232 DEX 58 STR 72 WA -> 328 ~ 609 (ave 468.5)
Advantage: +3.3%

Level 60: Maple Soul Searcher (scrolled) vs Asianic Bow
Str-less: 308 DEX 4 STR 65 WA -> 370 ~ 683 (ave 526.5)
Normal: 248 DEX 65 STR 75 WA -> 390 ~ 681 (ave 535.5)
Advantage: -1.7%

Level 65: Bow of Magical Destruction (scrolled 30%) vs Bow of Magical Desctruction
Str-less: 334 DEX 4 STR 101 wa -> 623 ~ 1150 (ave 886.5)
Normal: 273 DEX 65 STR 78 WA -> 441 ~ 774 (ave 607.5)
Advantage: +45.9%

Level 70: BoMD (scrolled) vs Hinkel
Str-less: 359 DEX 4 STR 101 WA -> 669 ~ 1236 (ave 952.5)
Normal: 288 DEX 75 STR 80 WA -> 483 ~ 843 (ave 663)
Advantage: +43.7%

Level 80: BoMD (scrolled) vs Arund
Str-less: 384 DEX 4 STR 101 WA -> 716 ~ 1322 (ave 1019)
Normal: 303 DEX 85 STR 85 WA -> 545 ~ 947 (ave 746)
Advantage: +36.6%

Level 90: BoMD (scrolled) vs Metus
Str-less: 409 DEX 4 STR 101 WA -> 762 ~ 1408 (ave 1085)
Normal: 318 DEX 95 STR 90 WA -> 610 ~ 1058 (ave 834)
Advantage: +30.1%

Level 100: BoMD (scrolled) vs Nisrock
Str-less: 434 DEX 4 STR 101 WA -> 808 ~ 1494 (ave 1151)
Normal: 333 DEX 105 STR 95 WA -> 680 ~ 1175 (ave 927.5)
Advantage: +24.1%

Level 110: BoMD (scrolled) vs Dragon Shine Bow (scrolled 30%)
Str-less: 459 DEX 4 STR 101 WA -> 855 ~ 1580 (ave 1217.5)
Normal: 351 DEX 115 STR 123 WA -> 934 ~ 1609 (ave 1271.5)
Advantage: -4.2%

ElderDragon
19th March 2007, 10:35 PM
Your numbers only prove str-less is better for that one situation. I'd prefer to see numbers based on average bowmen equips as that is a factor as well.

SpiraeaKozak
20th March 2007, 12:15 PM
Your numbers only prove str-less is better for that one situation. I'd prefer to see numbers based on average bowmen equips as that is a factor as well.

well if i have the time i would do it up... but it is very very tedious...

in anycase, it is very hard to do a proper comparison as we actually would require to consider equipment of equivalent cost.

but, it must be noted that for most cases, including equivalent equipment will only serve to close the gap between the pure dex and the normal. which is better will remain the same.

the main contributors of dex would be base stat and the main contributor of WA would be the weapon, which i have already taken into account of. scrolling would have to be reconsidered to make it more accurate.

lets say a pure dex has 500 dex and 100 wa while a normal has 400 dex and 120 wa. if you add in equip. you are probably going to add 50 dex and 10 wa. the pure dex is currently leading by a bit. if you add in the 50 dex and 10 wa from extra equips, the pure dex is still going to lead but with a narrower margin.

this will be the same the other way round.

therefore, when comparing who wins, there is almost no need to consider equip, unless you are taking into account the cost involved. and which char will have the resources to buy a certain equipment at an earlier level.

this would require a very intelligent decision making algorithm which is almost impossible to create.

simply, just assume that dex is better than normal when there is a statless weapon available at that level. and as you continue to level up, the normal will slowly catch up. if there is no new statless weapon in about 30 levels, the normal will overtake.

in short, dex is better than normal until level 90+ and will continue to lose ground as their level progress unless a statless weapon is available.

ElderDragon
20th March 2007, 10:16 PM
Don't make assumptions like 400 and 500 dex. A pure-dex would only be leading by X points of dex, where X is the lvl of an xbow or 5 above the lvl of a ranger.

Along those lines, you should state what lvl you're using and whether it's xbow or ranger.

SpiraeaKozak
21st March 2007, 10:48 AM
Don't make assumptions like 400 and 500 dex. A pure-dex would only be leading by X points of dex, where X is the lvl of an xbow or 5 above the lvl of a ranger.

Along those lines, you should state what lvl you're using and whether it's xbow or ranger.

haha. trust me, i am making sense. also, i doubt there are any dexless snipers. its dumb.

total base stats = level x 5 + 25 (for 3rd job, +20 for below 3rd job)
base dex = total base stats - 8 (int and luck) - base str

weapon WA = level / 2 + 45 for above 60
weapon WA = level + 15 for below 60

strless would be leading by an amount of dex equal to the level of the weapon the normal char is using +5.

by comparing 500 dex and 400 dex, i am obviously talking about the equivalent of a level 95 weapon in use. (which does not exist unfortunately, lets use level 100, i neglected the 5 dex cuz its not a nice number -> 395 dex)

now, at level 100, the base stats would be 100 x 5 + 25 = 525, of which 100 is put into str for the normal. thus the normal would have 417 dex and 100 str. but 417 and 517 is nasty so i made it 400 and 500.

now, the weapons

level 100 bow would have an average wa of 100 / 2 + 45 = 95

put in 7 x 60% pass, a 10 WA wg, you get about 120 WA.

now, strless is level 65.

level 65 bow would have an average wa of 65 / 2 + 45 = 77.5

put in the same things, and tada, you get about 100 WA.

so, its a rough approximation but its not baseless!

ElderDragon
21st March 2007, 10:52 AM
haha. trust me, i am making sense. also, i doubt there are any dexless snipers. its dumb.

total base stats = level x 5 + 25 (for 3rd job, +20 for below 3rd job)
base dex = total base stats - 8 (int and luck) - base str

weapon WA = level / 2 + 45 for above 60
weapon WA = level + 15 for below 60

strless would be leading by an amount of dex equal to the level of the weapon the normal char is using +5.

by comparing 500 dex and 400 dex, i am obviously talking about the equivalent of a level 95 weapon in use. (which does not exist unfortunately, lets use level 100, i neglected the 5 dex cuz its not a nice number -> 395 dex)

now, at level 100, the base stats would be 100 x 5 + 25 = 525, of which 100 is put into str for the normal. thus the normal would have 417 dex and 100 str. but 417 and 517 is nasty so i made it 400 and 500.

now, the weapons

level 100 bow would have an average wa of 100 / 2 + 45 = 95

put in 7 x 60% pass, a 10 WA wg, you get about 120 WA.

now, strless is level 65.

level 65 bow would have an average wa of 65 / 2 + 45 = 77.5

put in the same things, and tada, you get about 100 WA.

so, its a rough approximation but its not baseless!

First off, a dex-less sniper ? That's not possible as it's damage would be under 100. Perhaps you meant str-less sniper ?

Second off, math calculation are awesome, but I'd still prefer going normal dex - as soon as new weapons come out, and they have to eventually (unlike maple items, which we may never see again), I'll get a boost in attack strength and the slight difference in power will barely be noticeable.

SpiraeaKozak
21st March 2007, 10:56 AM
Don't make assumptions like 400 and 500 dex. A pure-dex would only be leading by X points of dex, where X is the lvl of an xbow or 5 above the lvl of a ranger.

Along those lines, you should state what lvl you're using and whether it's xbow or ranger.

ok exact values:

Helm: 15 DEX 15 STR
Overall: 30 Stats
Shoe: 10 Stats
Cape: 10 Stats 4 WA
Glove: 14 WA
Earring: 12 Stats
Weapon: 118 WA 3 DEX or 101 WA 3 DEX (BoMD)

Base Stats: 525 Stats

Normal: 507 DEX 105 STR 136 WA
Strless: 593 DEX 19 STR 119 WA

Damage of Normal: 1408 ~ 2487 (ave 1948)
Damage of Strless: 1318 ~ 2421 (ave 1870)

Damage advantage: -4%

FatalJoker
21st March 2007, 03:56 PM
Someone did the calculations at sw.

SpiraeaKozak
21st March 2007, 04:12 PM
I do better calculations. =D

ElderDragon
21st March 2007, 10:43 PM
Someone did the calculations at sw.

I wouldn't trust the people at SW to tell me what time it is, let alone do math calculations.