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Thread: Questions about learning another language.

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    Default Questions about learning another language.

    Ok, so i'm a little tired of being the typical 20 year old white person who knows a little spanish (because I worked with them). What is a good way of learning japanese? what is the difference between the asian languages? Why do the symbols and characters seem so complicated? Where does mandarin come from? Mandaria?


    Im looking for something "low budget" and not super in depth, because i'd just overwhelm myself and discouraged.
    Last edited by BarelyAwake; 28th October 2012 at 11:44 AM.
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    Always the Bridesmaid... bulmabriefs144's Avatar
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    Good way (but imperfect without a teacher) is immersion. Watching subs and stuff.

    Mandarin is Northern Chinese, Cantonese is Southern. It's a minority language so the Chinese govt is trying to phase Cantonese out. Mandarin is highly tonal monosyllabic (ma with different pronunciations means different things), Japanese is more or less non-tonal (although there are some puns based on similar sounding words) multisyllabic language. Japanese is easier to speak, Chinese is easier to read.

    This is because Japanese has about four written languages: Romaji (I know alot of this, because it's basically English alphabet with Japanese words), Kanji (Chinese alphabet, I know only a little of this), Katakana (based on syllables), Hiragana (I don't know this, but it's also a syllable). There's also Furigana (basically hiragana for pronunciations, either for foreign words, or for pronunciation guides or people's names).

    This is a good program, if you can manage without getting bored or frustrated. http://lrnj.com/download.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
    Good way (but imperfect without a teacher) is immersion. Watching subs and stuff.

    Mandarin is Northern Chinese, Cantonese is Southern. It's a minority language so the Chinese govt is trying to phase Cantonese out. Mandarin is highly tonal monosyllabic (ma with different pronunciations means different things), Japanese is more or less non-tonal (although there are some puns based on similar sounding words) multisyllabic language. Japanese is easier to speak, Chinese is easier to read.

    This is because Japanese has about four written languages: Romaji (I know alot of this, because it's basically English alphabet with Japanese words), Kanji (Chinese alphabet, I know only a little of this), Katakana (based on syllables), Hiragana (I don't know this, but it's also a syllable). There's also Furigana (basically hiragana for pronunciations, either for foreign words, or for pronunciation guides or people's names).

    This is a good program, if you can manage without getting bored or frustrated. http://lrnj.com/download.html

    Hmm, thanks for clarifying mandarin/cantonese. Doubt they will succeed in ruling out a language because people usually like hold on to history and culture. What is the most popular or all around form of japanese? I also think immersion wouldn't work for me. I doubt I would be able to learn a language from watching anime.
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    IAちゃんまじかわイア blankaex's Avatar
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    Learning new languages is always tough, but the more languages you learn, the easier it is to learn new ones (or so I've been told).

    Anyways, Japanese doesn't seem complicated; it is complicated. Correcting Bulma's descriptions of the Japanese alphabets:
    Kanji (漢字): Letters derived (completely copied) from Chinese. They each have a meaning, and often multiple ways of being read. There's like 2000 legal ones, and a few thousand more non-standard.
    Hiragana (ひらがな): Letters that represent sounds (and no meanings), used for conjugates (similar to adding "-ing" to words in English), or sometimes for words that lack kanji (like [p]articles). 46 of these.
    Katakana (カタカナ): Exactly like hiragana, but used for words that are derived from foreign languages. Eg: Chocolate = チョコレート (chokoreeto). Absolutely stupid, in my opinion. 46 of these too, same sounds as Hiragana.
    Romaji (romaji): The Roman (English) alphabet. Just writing Japanese words in it. Konnichiwa. It's not very common, sometimes found on signs for foreigners to read.
    Furigana: Smaller hiragana letters above/beside kanji letters to indicate how it's meant to be read. Most people know how Kanji should be read through context, though, so this is usually in things like manga or karaoke.

    In the end, Japanese sentences often contain a mux of two or three different alphabets. Freaking bull****.

    In any case, despite how complicated it is, it is pretty easy to learn once you get your head around it (and are motivated to learn). If you wanted to learn, the best way to go would be to learn kana (the umbrella term for hiragana + katakana) and grammar. Kanji isn't necessary until a fair bit later on, but you can learn it alongside if you find a kanji practice book or something. I'd recommend Nama-sensei on YouTube if you want to learn. Pretty vulgar, but a good motivator and teacher. Otherwise, pay for proper classes. And feel free to ask me as well, I'll help best I can.



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    Luck kaglover1's Avatar
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    Japanese and Mandarin are the hardest languages a person could every learn. Speaking wise is simpler, but it takes so long to know how to write kanji, and writing chinese is a bunch of sticks and lines. So they both aren't easy

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    Always the Bridesmaid... bulmabriefs144's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarelyAwake View Post
    Hmm, thanks for clarifying mandarin/cantonese. Doubt they will succeed in ruling out a language because people usually like hold on to history and culture. What is the most popular or all around form of japanese? I also think immersion wouldn't work for me. I doubt I would be able to learn a language from watching anime.
    Well, the thing about immersion is there are layers of it. Watching anime is partial immersion, and without knowing what you'd get from a teacher, you'll learn like 50 words a year. Complete immersion is going straight to China or Japan, and being forced to read signs and have most people not speak your language.

    I was in China for about 8 weeks, and I'd already learned 50 words. I'm not very social however, and just used a couple short phrases to get around (pointing to things and saying "this", using finger numbers, asking "what" or "how much", etc.) I managed to haggle with a woman on the price of a VCD player without a common language, she managed to talk me into buying alot of throw-ins, and gave the item in question at 1/2 price. Let's see, one VCD player, two music videos, one karaoke microphone (that I couldn't seem to work, so I donated to the school quietly), and one german porn (female-to-beast sex) video. In my guidebook, it says something about working out even trade. (My dad didn't take this advice when he came and tried to get discounts for nothing, making people pissed off at him) Apparently, she wanted more stocking space from unsold items, or to claim she'd lost items or something. Anyway, after that, I never haggled again.

    English has a reputation of being a difficult language, but this is mainly, because like Japanese, it has many borrowed words and concepts. Meaning rules are very, very inconsistent. That said, you can outright ignore the rules, as long as you speak a complete thought. You can say, "Want go to store... Where...?" And most people who are stupid or hung up on grammar exactness will point the way. So these foreigners are just really making a big fuss over nothing.

    Chinese and Japanese are about much much more difficult. But the key to speaking it is much the same. On the plane this guy was telling me, alot of people get hung up on tone, and as a result are afraid to speak Chinese. Don't think about words, think about concepts, and use word order to provide a guideline of what you're saying. You'll not have the right tone or pronunciation as a general rule, but having those words in that order, in that context, and most people will figure out what you're trying to say. If not, that's why we have guidebooks, and writing stuff down.

    I prefer kanji any day to katakana. Unique symbols vs "so" and "n" looking pretty much identical. Also, God help you if anyone writes Chinese cursive. You can't even look it up in a guidebook.

    My name in katakana would be タマスフケル。 In romaji, it's "tamasu hukeru" (Thomas Hooker). In hiragana, たますふける。 In Chinese, or kanji, my name actually would be based on its meaning (something like "twin hooks").
    Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 28th October 2012 at 09:27 PM.

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    Luck kaglover1's Avatar
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    But however if you learn spanish or french and those other european languages, they all relate to the same alphabet. As for chinese and japanese, no. Which is why they are more complex to learn

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    Always the Bridesmaid... bulmabriefs144's Avatar
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    Gahhh, wrong word order. Hukeru Tamasu -> romaji, フケル タマス -> katakana, ふける たます -> hiragana. I also finally puzzled out the kanji.

    http://rut.org/cgi-bin/j-e/

    (This is a good site for looking words up, it has the romaji, and you can click on stuff to get the kanji or katakana)

    Thomas means "twin" and Hooker is likely a profession name having less to do with prostitution than having to do with either fishing or hooking together things as in stitching. So the best equivalent of my name is...

    爪双子. It's written as Tsume Futago (but pronounced as above).

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    butts FailFTW's Avatar
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    In Mandarin Chinese you don't have to conjugate verbs. So there's that.
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  10. #10
    Luck kaglover1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailFTW View Post
    In Mandarin Chinese you don't have to conjugate verbs. So there's that.
    Because there is no such thing called grammar in chinese

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