HA + Tele MAX

[DaosBeoulve]

Again, maxed HA user here and I neither regret it nor have I realized "how poor of a mistake that was." I won't be maxing SR until well after level 100, and having HA works out pretty well for me. The whole "Level 1 SR is better than maxed HA" argument only works against monsters that you can clump and that aren't weak to heal (since, because of heal's casting speed and good damage, it's still far superior to SR at those monsters -- ie zombies -- and it's silly to argue about which inferior skill is superior in such a case). Even then, you're not gauranteed KB on monsters with KBs >=1000 everytime with SR, and SR is much slower than HA, so you could probably still kill 2 (or maybe 3 if you get horribly low damage because of the horrible mastery lvl 1 SR has) enemies faster with HA than with SR My SR right now does between 900 and ~1700 or 1800ish on zombies with meditate. HA does about 2100ish-2982 (highest I've seen thus far).

I can also kill dark yetis and dark pepes easily and I kill single death teddies with HA far faster than with heal. I get more xp by myself killing death teddies than I do with a party at zombies (even more if I'm not laggy and go to master death teddies). Partying with a DK at MDTs gives slightly better xp/hour than by myself, but I have a pretty difficult time finding DKs to party with. Plus, I'd normally rather fight with my guildies, and more often than not, I find myself using HA to kill frozen monsters after the sniper or i/l mage get to them.

When it comes down to it, HA isn't necessary. Though, neither is bless depending on who you're training with, or teleport if you don't mind going as far or using a ton of mp, or mp eater if you don't mind having to buy a few more potions a bit more often than a normal cleric/priest. I'm almost lvl 83 now, and having HA has not hurt me during levelling. Neither has not having mp eater. *shrugs*

[ElderDragon]

When it comes down to it, HA isn't necessary. Though, neither is bless depending on who you're training with, or teleport if you don't mind going as far or using a ton of mp, or mp eater if you don't mind having to buy a few more potions a bit more often than a normal cleric/priest. I'm almost lvl 83 now, and having HA has not hurt me during levelling. Neither has not having mp eater. *shrugs*

You summarily rule out everything as "unnecessary", so isn't everything unnecessary with your logic ?

When I say "realized it's a mistake/regretted it" I don't mean you're gonna huddle in a corner and cry, you'll just realize it's a waste of points. Bless is much more useful.

And SR at lvl 1 being better than HA does work, so what if they're not in a group ? I'd rather have a strong attack that hits multiple things than a weak one that only hits 1 thing (and doesn't get around obstacles).

As a priest, you should be partying, and teleport allows for you to get to everyone quickly and party. Idealy, you should be in a party with a couple of DK's positioned around a big screen doing roar while you zip around and heal them.

MP eater cuts down costs just like teleport. Sure, people could shrug like you and go "I use more pots than a priest my lvl because I'm horribly stubborn, oh well" :roll: but most of us wanna do the right thing, not go on a flimsy whim to shoot a magic arrow.

[DarkPhive]

Oh I had a point, you said yours was the most efficient and people shouldn't use some kind of other shotty build. Why is mine and other people's builds shotty? I was merely trying to defend ourselves. I didn't want teleport and I wanted HA. So why is mine shotty? I'm pretty strong I must admit. I don't need speed as much. Oh well.

by shotty i ment like, well asicly its been shot, has holes in it...
like having no MP eater is a hole for obvious reason.
and NOT having HA is no a hole becuase getting HA is only preferential and not nesesary.
being slow is a hole.
and being powerful, well at lvl 70 its SR so u will be powerful,for a cleric anyways i guess...

I'm sorry for the most idiotic thing, I was over exaggerating.

ok, but again i dont see ur point. you just asked me why i called it shotty, i answered, but why was the statement idiotic?

Also, about the ice thing. You confused yourself. She was talking about the first job moves to all the second job moves. Why get magic claw if you are getting heal/cold beam/fire arrow. That was what she meant. Clerics don't have ice, so you kinda screwed that comment up.

ok i can see what happened. i used ice mages as an example for a clearer understanding, let me try and clear it up again...

clerics getting holy arrow instead of MPeater (or bless or tele) is like an ice mage getting bolt instead of magic guard.

do u see it?
want me to try explain again?
cuz i will....


oh yeah to the whole discussion as which is better HA or SR
well thats pretty silly,srsly, just look at the numbers
if there is more than one monster...SR is better no question.
it not only has good range and dmg but the range also goes down up AND backwards

i hope your not trying to say that training at DTs using HA is good.
becuase its not.
and if there is one DT thats by it self, and u wanna kill it,DONT, use SR and gather a mob...
as an ice mage i know about mobs, and even tho my ice beam is not as strong at DTs as holy arrow i can freeze, i never use it to kill one monster, becuase in the mean time i could be killing 6 with ice strike (ur heal OR SR)
it seems that u have forsed yourself to live with no MP eater and i think its becuase "you dont know what your missing" but hey, its not really losing money sinse without it ur still using ur normal MP.and now ur telling me why HA is better than SR, and i find all ur points invalid.except for

When it comes down to it, HA isn't necessary.

[gweegee]

Holy crap... you guys are just ripping the argument to shreds, aren't ya? :shock:

Anyway, maybe a bit off-topic but it MIGHT contribute to the argument if anyone is able to clarify this for me. This is just a question. I'm not going to bother heading into the argument if it seems like everyone's getting a bit too personal with the "rebuttals."

Question:
Compare the range in distance for SR, HA and Heal. Which one allows you to hit a monster at the greatest distance and which one has the smallest distance? My own findings look like this but I want verification in case my eyes have gone nutso on me: HA > Heal > SR

[ElderDragon]

I'm 100% sure SR has a greater range than heal, but I'm not sure about HA.

But what's your point ? If you're tying to say that because HA better range than SR that it's a better attack ?

I may not hit as far, but I can hit 6 things and do more damage.

[gweegee]

Remind me where I said that there's a point to my question. Because all I wanted to know is whether my eyes were decieving me or if what I see regarding distance of those skills are correct.

EDIT:
A new question because of the information provided above. Again, a type of verification. Do SR and Heal increase in distance as you add more SP to those skills?

[lweikit]

Wow O.o ElderDragon Mage already?? O.o
Thats fast!!! Grats for becoming a Mage...
Elderdragon, can wait for me? I am only lvl 75!!! you're so fast!!! O.o

I heard that HA isn't used much in third job, so in my opinion, DONT max it, OR, dont even add 1 SP in it... Maybe, you should add it to Magic Armour... O.o
Its mayby useless to you, but do you remember having bless too?
That makes abt 40+ def. It doesnt seems alot for one hit, but if you accumulate the damage decreased, that makes alot!!!
Again, your choice, not mine, max it or not, up to you...

[DaosBeoulve]

Heal has the best range vertically, unless SR increases with level. On the death teddy map, you can stand on the bottom left safe platform and hit things on the bottow row with heal. Horizontal wise, HA has the best range.

Heal's distance does seem to increase as you add points into it, and I can verify that the range of Holy Symbol increases as you put more points into it (at lvl 1, I had to be almost right next to someone to hit them, now I can be a good bit away and still hit them with it). Hopefully SR's ranged increases with level because as it is, it sucks.

My point on the things being unnecessary, elder, is that in any given situation, some or all of your skills can be unnecessary. Thus, your playing style and who you party with dictates what skills you do or do not use, what skills can get you killed, and what skills are most useful to the situation. I built Araneu around my friends, applying skill points where I thought they would be best used when partying with a bowman / xbowman / bandit / i/l mage. When it came down to it, MP Eater seemed the least beneficial, so I ditched it for Bless in the hopes of recruiting some warriors into the guild (we did get an HP warrior, but bless doesn't really help him anyways=p). One of these days I'm still going to reset those few extra points from mp eater into invincible.

As a priest, you should be partying, and teleport allows for you to get to everyone quickly and party. Idealy, you should be in a party with a couple of DK's positioned around a big screen doing roar while you zip around and heal them.

Show me one training party that actually uses this. Dragon Roar is a horrible skill (from what I've seen) to use to level. It takes a huge portion of your hp (you couldn't use it more than once on most training maps without having to spam your potion button to stay alive), it leaves you vunerable for some time after you've used it, and maxed buster outdamages it. Aside from aqua road, most 3rd job (ie. ludi) training maps are huge. Even if the DK was in a perfectly safe place, they could get it off at best three times without having to waste tons of money on pots before they could use it again (and there's no way you can zip around an entire ludi map before they could use it three times).

DarkPhive, you missed my point about when I use HA on death teddies. I use it when there's only one or two frozen completely still in front of me. When I train by myself, I use heal. When I train with a DK there, I stick right by him and keep him healed. When there's more than one or two frozen in front of me, I spam heal and hit all of them. Will I switch to SR when I eventually get around to maxing it? Sure. But I've still got at least 17 levels before I even start working on it. Our I/L mage is also only lvl 69 right now, but he enjoys training at death teddies with me. So, when he's there, we basically kill one at a time unless he's really wanting to blow some money and he lightnings while I heal.

MP eater cuts down costs just like teleport. Sure, people could shrug like you and go "I use more pots than a priest my lvl because I'm horribly stubborn, oh well" but most of us wanna do the right thing, not go on a flimsy whim to shoot a magic arrow.

I average about one red bean an hour with a DK at MDTs, and the only time I've ever used more was when I saw Hyper Body flashing and I immediately hit magic guard to keep myself alive. Cost is still negligible compared to what I/L and F/P mages go through at my level.

*shrugs* Guess I'll just have to live with myself knowing I've done the wrong thing with my poor priest.

[ElderDragon]

As a priest, you should be partying, and teleport allows for you to get to everyone quickly and party. Idealy, you should be in a party with a couple of DK's positioned around a big screen doing roar while you zip around and heal them.

Show me one training party that actually uses this. Dragon Roar is a horrible skill (from what I've seen) to use to level. It takes a huge portion of your hp (you couldn't use it more than once on most training maps without having to spam your potion button to stay alive), it leaves you vunerable for some time after you've used it, and maxed buster outdamages it. Aside from aqua road, most 3rd job (ie. ludi) training maps are huge. Even if the DK was in a perfectly safe place, they could get it off at best three times without having to waste tons of money on pots before they could use it again (and there's no way you can zip around an entire ludi map before they could use it three times).

Oh my god. Did you really just cite loss of hp as a reason not to use when you're supposed to be partying with a priest ? That's the entire reason they party with a priest, they use it on bigs maps to kill groups. There are many pefectly good places to use it, you just have no imagination. Even if they do get hit, that's why the priest is there; you heal, they resume roaring. You clear a map going down, then go back up. It's a perfectly good strategy, which I'm surprised you're not aware of (or at least pretend to be).

Seriously, you strike me as a beginner priest who doesn't know much about training.

Lweikit, are you in scania ? I'm on vacation right now (2 weeks) so I play like 24/7. As soon as school starts, I'll be back to lvl'ing once a month. I'm only gonna bother getting mine to 80, then I'm gonna go back to my bandit.

If you're in scania, look me up. I'll be the one bothering darkphive at DT's :D

[masterchocobo]

It's cute how a nice little question DERANGES ITSELF INTO A WHOLE ****ING ARGUEMENT, HUH?!

Ahem.

Had I continued playing MS, I will have put points and max HA, because I LIKE IT.

The basis of an online game that allows you to allocate points into skills is to be different from everyone else. If they wanted clerics to be people's heal whores 24-7, they didn't have to add HA then, would they?
So please, people, don't hurt your fingers typing out long arguments debating about the usefulness of HA when it's all in your heads.

Thank you.