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Thread: I explicitly HATE Creatonists.

  1. #641

    Shield

    I sure hope this thread does not degrade into mindless spam once the other thread is "created". (Har har har.)

    Then again, it would be great if this topic becomes locked. That way we won't have people spamming it and we can use it as a refrence in the new thread if we so desire. And by "we", I mean people who actually post in this thread (in other words, not me.)

  2. #642
    Phantom Watch krnboy1009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulyana View Post
    I'd be for it. I can see why we might not want any confused people wandering in and starting a flame war about things no one was talking about. :rolleyes: Even though he recently posted, I don't think Pyro will mind if we abandon this thread. He was surprised it was even still open and said he didn't want to come in (but then did).

    Make some rules, though. One of them should be that you read a few pages back to see what the current topic is before jumping in. You can bring up something new, but reading the last post about the current topic and writing an impassioned retort gets some of us me riled up.
    I was about to suggest that. I am dead serious. Or how about we just create one massive debating thread?

  3. #643
    Crimson Balrog PhoenixRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krnboy1009 View Post
    Or how about we just create one massive debating thread?
    naa, not a good idea, for many reasons.

  4. #644

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    Actually, Mr. Oddman did create a debate thread in Tomato. It didn't last long. I think the thread should be left in here - it's not necessarily Empty House material, but they've allowed this one to stay here. In Tomato it would get drowned out really fast. Here, we can leave it for awhile when we have nothing much to say (like we do) and be able to find it when we come back.

    I don't mind if it's a general debate thread. I like discussions about politics and things as well.

  5. #645
    Phantom Watch
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    what we're currently discussing in class.

    Quote Originally Posted by teacher
    Additional Criticisms to the Argument from Causation
    February 15, 2008
    I. Does Everything Have An Efficient Cause?

    Quantum mechanics, which is the field of physics that studies very small atoms and even things smaller than atoms, argues that the world is not orderly, predictable and continuous. In other words, many experiments have shown that sometimes not everything must have an efficient cause.

    At the sub atomic level, particles such as electrons, positrons and neutrons can burst into existence without the dependency of some other thing. Since there is no exact point of origin that can explain this strange phenomenon, it isn’t necessarily true that every effect has an efficient cause—at least with respect to the sub atomic level.

    II. Circular Causation—No Beginning or End

    Rather than argue for a first cause or an uncaused universe, perhaps the universe is composed of a series of causes that run in a circle.

    Some Eastern religions would accept this model of the universe. Consider the belief that the death of any living organism is a continuation of a new life cycle. For example, the “death” of a flower partakes in a new form of life—it becomes rich soil and provides nourishment for other living organisms. The flower that becomes part of the soil would also become part of the bird that feeds from the soil, and so on and so forth. The flower is not permanently out of existence, since it takes part of another form of life. Thus, every living organism, including ourselves, is ultimately interconnected with one another.

    We can extend this analogy to the “big picture”, namely, the universe: it has no beginning, nor an end. Perhaps the universe as we know it is currently being reborn from a previous life cycle. And this cycle will continue without end.

    III. Causation Doesn’t Work Without Time

    Many argue that time is a necessary condition for causation so that in order for there to be any cause and effect relation, time must exist. For example, when we say that A causes B, what we really mean to say is that A is prior in time to B, or A precedes B.

    However, some philosophers of science have argued that time is an illusion. Although time may seem to us as though it passes, “time” is really unchanging and constant. If time isn’t real and causation depends on time, then causation must be an illusion. Thus, to speak of a first cause turns out to be meaningless.

  6. #646
    various disguises
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulyana View Post
    Actually, Mr. Oddman did create a debate thread in Tomato. It didn't last long. I think the thread should be left in here - it's not necessarily Empty House material, but they've allowed this one to stay here. In Tomato it would get drowned out really fast. Here, we can leave it for awhile when we have nothing much to say (like we do) and be able to find it when we come back.

    I don't mind if it's a general debate thread. I like discussions about politics and things as well.
    That wasn't me, although I think I was the only one who actually put forth an argument in the thread. But you're right, it didn't last long.

    I still think it'd be a good idea to create a separate thread to discuss religion in, though. I can't speak for anyone else except supa, but I spend a lot of time in my user CP, so the thread getting lost wouldn't be a problem for me. And since the intent (or part of the intent, at least) is to bring more people into the discussion, that might end up not being a problem at all.

    Anyway, I'd like to jump start the thread with an argument, so I won't create it until I can sort of organize my thoughts coherently. This past week's been pretty annoying, mostly because of school, but I'll make it sometime soon.
    Quote Originally Posted by supalime View Post
    Everyone is gay for SOG.

  7. #647

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    I had this interesting argument with my sister some time ago. Oddguy's post about circular processes and the universe jogged it.


    It was mainly about whether the universe was created by God or if it always existed through one means or another.

  8. #648
    "King of Quotes" pyrofyr's Avatar
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    Yes, please make that other thread fast. :]

    I've actually had people send me msgs on AIM/MSN about my anti-creationist display picture that I forgot that I've had up for over 6 months... finally changed it.

    In all seriousness, this thread needs to be locked. At the end of the day, it was just a rant, while the conversations in here are much more. -reports self in first post-
    Gone with the wind

  9. #649
    Crimson Balrog PhoenixRider's Avatar
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    IB4L

    harharhar

  10. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by supalime View Post
    Everyone is gay for SOG.

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