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Thread: Discussion of organized religion, the existence of God(s), and theism in general

  1. #11
    Phantom Watch zigkid3's Avatar
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    What I find funny is that i hardly see anyone who is Theistist (spelling), or Atheist who never considered to combine the two. for example evolution vs creationism, what if God created us over a period of time through evolution (hence the "rib"). As for creation of Earth, creation of 7 days vs. a hella of a long time of gathering dust, what if he gathered dust over a period of time and 7 days either felt like 7 days to him or was a metaphor. then Adam and Eve can be seen as the first ****sapiens to become more consciencely aware of the world etc...

    but yeah, those dinosaurs...i dont really know. did the bible name specific animals before the great flood?

    what makes Organized religion flawed however is that if some change happens in history that supposedly contradicts the religion. obviously that religion calls it a lie, then once its widely accepted the religion goes "o i mean see if you look at these verses that way, it umm supports it, yeah".

    However, although its a possibility that science and religion are actually one in the same (God creating atoms, and elements and such to be used as his "tools"). You should keep in mind that Religion was made long long ago by people who had no where near of an understanding of the world as we do now, and religion could have been created in order to make sense of those that couldnt be made sense of, at the time.

    Then when scientists discover a new way to cure something using stem cells and such, or cloning specific organs. all these religious people go "omg thats playing God, you cant do that". Has anyone ever even stopped to think that sense God controls everything (except free will), then maybe God wanted us to find it, so that we as the human race can live better? otherwise we wouldnt or shouldnt have found a way to use stem cells/a way to clone specific organs in the first place. And if youre gonna try to disprove that with the apple, adam, and eve, in genesis then here's what i say: "God put that tree right there and specifically told them to not eat from that tree to test their free will. obviously God is master of time too, so he already knows what would happen but he let it happen cause he wanted adam and eve to choose without interference. however you can argue that like the tree, these new break throughs in science is evil, but there is one hole in that logic. God, never told us not to do it. and he never even showed it to us in the first place, we just found it by chance, and God could have hid the chance if he felt like it.

    As for ****s3xuals. I believe God had a set rules of some commandments of which being g@y is not in there, so i dont really see that as a sin. besides God is supposed to love everyone right? ****s3xuals arent doing anything wrong so why is it considred sinning? cause they arent reproducing? there's more than enough reproducing as it is now. and i know someone is gonna come in here and go "thats why its Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve". well God wanted reproduction, duh. Also the bible is God's word (supposedly), but who interprets it? the leaders of the Church! Technically you could interpret the bible anyway you want with the right verses actually. so i dont believe God hates g@y's, cause honestly he shouldnt, and if he does...then God is a retarded kid who just sat in his room playing legos, who then liked to kill them off, then spilled camprisun over his little game, and had wash it, who then decided to make one of the lego characters after himself to help his superiority complex, and will then break up the entire lego set before he has to go back to bed.

  2. #12
    Blue bird of friendliness penguinzrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zigkid3 View Post
    but yeah, those dinosaurs...i dont really know. did the bible name specific animals before the great flood?

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by penguinzrock View Post
    I didn't want to demonstrate anything. It's just a preference of mine to not believe in the realist ideas. Life is bleak as it is; religion is our only escape. Saying "We were all created in a huge explosion of matter no one can control, and in return are equally flying towards our inevitable doom." sounds a bit depressing, don'cha think?

    Also, we as humans need some sort of something to lean on when things get tough. Who else can we turn to? Depression and despair close in all around us; it's all we can do, when we pray. I'm not trying to make it sound like religion is just some anti-depressant, but if we didn't have religion, what else? Who could have inspired Michaelangelo, Da Vinci, and other great Creationistic artists? Who could have turned Martin Luther into a believer, and ultimately stop the corruption of the Catholic priests? A higher presence must be there (or so man thinks).
    Sorry, I'm not interested in discussing the so-called human necessity of belief in God. Whether or not God exists is not a practical concern for me, but a philosophical one. Perhaps someone else will address your claims.

    And LOL at the pic.
    Quote Originally Posted by zigkid3
    As for ****s3xuals. I believe God had a set rules of some commandments of which being g@y is not in there, so i dont really see that as a sin.
    See: http://www.carm.org/questions/homosexuality.htm (Copy and paste it)
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    Everyone is gay for SOG.

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    Phantom Watch zigkid3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slightlyoddguy View Post
    Sorry, I'm not interested in discussing the so-called human necessity of belief in God. Whether or not God exists is not a practical concern for me, but a philosophical one. Perhaps someone else will address your claims.

    And LOL at the pic.

    See: http://www.carm.org/questions/homosexuality.htm
    [/url]
    i think he is saying that nowadays. people don't really believe in God 100%, but rather they choose to want to believe in God to make their pathetic lives better.

    edit: just saw the link. so apparently God is..."a retarded kid who just sat in his room playing legos, who then liked to kill them off, then spilled camprisun over his little game, and had wash it, who then decided to make one of the lego characters after himself to help his superiority complex, and will then break up the entire lego set before he has to go back to bed." i mean seriously why should it be a sin? those quotes, i'll admit, are pretty straight forward on condemning ****s3xuals, but it doesn't necessarily say why. so you dont reproduce, so what, plenty of others to do the job for you. not like its immoral (or some: as immoral as...) killing/stealing or something.

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    Blue bird of friendliness penguinzrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slightlyoddguy View Post
    Sorry, I'm not interested in discussing the so-called human necessity of belief in God. Whether or not God exists is not a practical concern for me, but a philosophical one. Perhaps someone else will address your claims.
    Then the gloves are off.

    When it comes down to it: What can be used against one side can also be used against the other. None of us have hard proof. Science is information from nowhere. It's all assumption and baseless claim. There can't be one Creator. Then what else? A giant explosion? Were you around for it? Can it be heard/touched/smelled/tasted/seen?
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    Quote Originally Posted by penguinzrock View Post
    Then the gloves are off.

    When it comes down to it: What can be used against one side can also be used against the other. None of us have hard proof. Science is information from nowhere. It's all assumption and baseless claim. There can't be one Creator. Then what else? A giant explosion? Were you around for it? Can it be heard/touched/smelled/tasted/seen?
    Please clarify your terms before continuing. What constitutes "hard proof", for example? The only empirical claim I hold to be absolutely true is that I exist (Cogito, ergo sum). I also grant logic and mathematics absolute truth, but to quote Wittgenstein (who, admittedly, I have not read, but I like this quote):
    The propositions of logic describe the scaffolding of the world, or rather they represent it. They have no 'subject-matter'.
    That is to say, logic and mathematics say nothing about the "real" world.

    So, before I comment on your claim of science as "information from nowhere" and your other claims, I would like to be certain I'm not attacking a straw man of your position.
    Quote Originally Posted by supalime View Post
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    Phantom Watch zigkid3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by penguinzrock View Post
    Science is information from nowhere. It's all assumption and baseless claim.
    double U tee eff?!

    does oxygen allow you to live? i'd like to see you not breath for 15 minutes then post back here again.

  8. #18
    Mushmom ~UnknownBandit~'s Avatar
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    Who else is awaiting the "Pyrofyr Reaction"?

    Five bucks says one of his posts here will ban him sooner or later. :\

    Really, sorry for being off topic which is against your rules, but he'll probably be upset with this thread. Besides, what exactly happened to the one in Empty House?

    Edit: I feel bad for not contributing. So...

    I wouldn't say that all Science is is baseless claims & assumptions. Like zigkid said in a nutshell, they first have the theories and then test them. I believe in a lot of scientific fact and theory, but that doesn't smudge my belief in God.

    Double Edit: The above can be surmised as a dumbed-up version of what sog said, no?
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    Phantom Watch zigkid3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~UnknownBandit~ View Post
    Who else is awaiting the "Pyrofyr Reaction"?

    Five bucks says one of his posts here will ban him sooner or later. :\
    Telecast is pyrofyr, right?
    also im surprised that "I hate creationists" thread is still around, its been there for how long? and honestly isnt this thread basically almost the same thing but more general?

  10. #20
    Blue bird of friendliness penguinzrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slightlyoddguy View Post
    Please clarify your terms before continuing. What constitutes "hard proof", for example? The only empirical claim I hold to be absolutely true is that I exist (Cogito, ergo sum). I also grant logic and mathematics absolute truth, but to quote Wittgenstein (who, admittedly, I have not read, but I like this quote):
    The propositions of logic describe the scaffolding of the world, or rather they represent it. They have no 'subject-matter'.
    That is to say, logic and mathematics say nothing about the "real" world.

    So, before I comment on your claim of science as "information from nowhere" and your other claims, I would like to be certain I'm not attacking a straw man of your position.
    I see hard proof as something you can touch/feel/smell/hear/see. That's kind of how science defines it, anyway. I'm shaky about this debate, since religion really has no ammunition once science presents its logic-based theory papers.

    Quote Originally Posted by zigkid3 View Post
    double U tee eff?!

    does oxygen allow you to live? i'd like to see you not breath for 15 minutes then post back here again.
    Well who's to say it's really oxygen? What if it's just a figment of our imaginations, allowing us to breathe? What if the tests are wrong? In a world where nothing is set in stone, chairs don't exist. I'm not typing anything. This is a dream. Actually, it's a playwright. Or it could be a universe, existing in an atom belonging to a fish in a world larger than ours.

    I really have no idea what I'm talking about. My instinct (LOL SCIENCE) tells me to back off right about now.
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