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Thread: Morgana's Guide to LUK for Magicians

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgana View Post
    Perhaps I should talk a bit more about what I mean by normal LUK... Essentially I mean that you already have either exactly as much, or more, LUK than you need to equip your weapon as base LUK. (And obviously, you use a weapon that actually requires a significant amount of LUK... i.e, not a Black Umbrella.) So if someone caps at exactly 90 LUK to wear a Codar and doesn't add any more, I call them normal LUK. To me, whether or not you're capped is independent of being normal/low LUK. A low LUK mage could not be capped... They could have 15 LUK below their level + 3, for example, to account for a Zhelm, yet they could still be adding LUK to equip higher level weapons.
    Thanks for clarifying. It might be better if you revise the category into Luk and Lukless. From your definition normal luk is more a subcategory rather than it's own category.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgana View Post
    I didn't know that the magical accuracy formula had gone back to being LUK > INT... I'll update that. Thanks. =)
    They haven't changed their stance in the first post, so I don't think you should either. :D Their latest experiment on stump lean toward luk by like 15 hits out of 500. It's not too significant. :p

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgana View Post
    What I mean when I say that "a build is stronger" is that, when both builds have the absolute best equipment possible, one is stronger than the other. What I mean when I say that "a build is stronger for the cost" is that given the same amount of funding, one build will be able to surpass the other, if both spend the funding wisely. I'll go through the guide and try to state more carefully. =)
    The guides I like tend to avoid hard stances. Without the explanation above, the comparison section was only place I notice you came on a little too strong. Btw, nice to see we're thinking on a similar vein in regards to funding. :D


    Quote Originally Posted by Morgana View Post
    I think I need to add a definitions section. I sort of... Invent my own terms that I think should be obvious as to the meaning, but I mean them a lot more strictly than it seems from my writing. ^^;
    That might be a good idea. This way it wouldn't distract from the overall purpose of the guide. :)

    Thanks Allysiana for the sig. Thanks ElderDragon for the avatar.

    Whenever I'm caught between two evils, I take the one I've never tried

    Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, the experience usually comes from bad judgment
    .

  2. #12
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    I removed my post because it was insulting and I don't feel like getting banned again, no matter how justified I am.

    I just wonder how someone who's not even 8x can make such guides.

  3. #13
    Phantom Watch
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  4. #14

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    Though it may just be an opinion... I do believe that ultimately the capped Luk build is the weakest mage build. "Ultimately" is determined by Nexon releasing mage gear of the highest levels [or] statless gear released beyond the best luk-staff/wand that the capped luk person uses.

    Essentially... if Nexon put out a level 120 statless wand/staff... most mages with a luck capped at around 80 or below would definitely gain a decent boost in power by using it. The downside is that beyond the gear they may wear, the luck they have is now pointless.

    Truly there is only two builds, and the notion of a capped luck is derived out of an immediate power gain from Nexon's slow release of higher level weapons. Anyway, this issue has been something that has bugged me about my own mage and whether I'll continue adding luck or cut my losses at where I'm at and suffer the power difference.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by RatPoison View Post
    Though it may just be an opinion... I do believe that ultimately the capped Luk build is the weakest mage build. "Ultimately" is determined by Nexon releasing mage gear of the highest levels [or] statless gear released beyond the best luk-staff/wand that the capped luk person uses.

    Essentially... if Nexon put out a level 120 statless wand/staff... most mages with a luck capped at around 80 or below would definitely gain a decent boost in power by using it. The downside is that beyond the gear they may wear, the luck they have is now pointless.

    Truly there is only two builds, and the notion of a capped luck is derived out of an immediate power gain from Nexon's slow release of higher level weapons. Anyway, this issue has been something that has bugged me about my own mage and whether I'll continue adding luck or cut my losses at where I'm at and suffer the power difference.
    With the extremely slow rate of Nexon's release, the general consensus is to cut your losses. The only consideration against the above statement is the last nugget that Nexon has dangled in front of our eyes in the form of elemental weapons. However, the main difference between the lukless version and the luk version is faster casting for the luk version. The int acquired by capping or being lukless should make up the difference in dps between the two weapon; at least in theory.

    As a side note. If my assumption is correct, you're probably beyond the lvl 150 mark. With 50 more lvl to go, you might be done with this game before Nexon releases lvl 150 items. :p

    Thanks Allysiana for the sig. Thanks ElderDragon for the avatar.

    Whenever I'm caught between two evils, I take the one I've never tried

    Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, the experience usually comes from bad judgment
    .

  6. #16
    Slime
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    Could you please explain to us noobs why a lukless would have a lower spell casting speed. I thought the only thing affecting casting speed was the 3rd job skill Magic Booster. And isn't the attack speed listed in the database for wands or staffs (staves?) just the useless physical attack speed? So you can hit boxes faster -big deal.
    Another question; It seems to me there is no reason to acquire higher level weapons, since any magic attack gain from the higher level staff is offset by having to divert more points into LUK from INT in order to be able to use it.
    Is this not correct, or am I missing something?
    It seems the ultimate weapon at the moment is the level 64 maple wizard staff, or possibly the black umbrella, though I believe staff upgrade scrolls don't work on umbrellas. There's some other problem with umbrellas too, I recall.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by DumbNoob View Post
    Could you please explain to us noobs why a lukless would have a lower spell casting speed. I thought the only thing affecting casting speed was the 3rd job skill Magic Booster. And isn't the attack speed listed in the database for wands or staffs (staves?) just the useless physical attack speed? So you can hit boxes faster -big deal.
    Another question; It seems to me there is no reason to acquire higher level weapons, since any magic attack gain from the higher level staff is offset by having to divert more points into LUK from INT in order to be able to use it.
    Is this not correct, or am I missing something?
    It seems the ultimate weapon at the moment is the level 64 maple wizard staff, or possibly the black umbrella, though I believe staff upgrade scrolls don't work on umbrellas. There's some other problem with umbrellas too, I recall.
    I had to reread some of this thread to remember some of the info.
    http://www.sleepywood.info/forum/sho...310456&page=11

    So it seems the speed part is speculation on why there's such a huge disparity between there lukless lvl 130 wand and the luk lvl 163 wand. Since there's been no changes to date on the speed of the cast in the server with these weapons; I'll recant my earlier statement. I apologize for the confusion it cause. I'm assuming that explosion is still affected by the speed of the weapon.

    To the second part of your question. If the base magic attack of the lvl 130 lukless version was set a lot lower, then it might be in the best interest (for capped or normal luk) to obtain and use the lvl 163 staff. The elemental weapons, in addition to having a base 178 magic attack, provides a 25% boost in damage to their respective element.

    Thanks Allysiana for the sig. Thanks ElderDragon for the avatar.

    Whenever I'm caught between two evils, I take the one I've never tried

    Good judgment comes from experience. Unfortunately, the experience usually comes from bad judgment
    .

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by RatPoison View Post
    Though it may just be an opinion... I do believe that ultimately the capped Luk build is the weakest mage build. "Ultimately" is determined by Nexon releasing mage gear of the highest levels [or] statless gear released beyond the best luk-staff/wand that the capped luk person uses.

    Essentially... if Nexon put out a level 120 statless wand/staff... most mages with a luck capped at around 80 or below would definitely gain a decent boost in power by using it. The downside is that beyond the gear they may wear, the luck they have is now pointless.

    Truly there is only two builds, and the notion of a capped luck is derived out of an immediate power gain from Nexon's slow release of higher level weapons. Anyway, this issue has been something that has bugged me about my own mage and whether I'll continue adding luck or cut my losses at where I'm at and suffer the power difference.
    Well, the whole point of capping your LUK is that it's the best you can do for now, but who's to say you can't add LUK later?

    And yes, the elemental weapons, if that's what you are talking about, are the most retarded piece of game design I have seen in a while. They make it pointless to have a LUK mage at all. But they aren't out yet, and there's no guarantee they will be. They were essentially released in JMS just to entice people to actually play mages, as 90% of the population there is bishops/NLs. Also, the developers are gradually making LUKless better, to entice LUK mages to reset down to LUKless, rather than to quit in a rage if Nexon did it all at once. (But this is just my cynical idea.)

    @DumbNoob: Whendoom is talking about the lukless vs. luk elemental weapons, which are not released yet, when talking about cast speed. And yes, cast speed is affected by weapon speed, but only slightly. Mainly in the F/P skill Explosion. I am not too clear on the details, but apparently the difference is noticeable for the elemental weapons...

    True, there is no reason to have higher-level weapons per se. However, adding more LUK allows you to wear higher-level armor, which has better stats. Typically, as a LUK mage, you want to strike a balance between equips that give good stats and weapons that are still relatively easy to find and scroll.

    The level 64 staff/wand are very good, yes, if you are LUKless. If you have LUK already, then they aren't the ultimate weapons for you, because you can wear something with a higher base MATT that's higher level...

    Black Umbrella cannot be scrolled with regular wand/staff scrolls. It is scrolled with 1-Handed Sword for MATT scrolls, which give less stats per scroll than wand/staff scrolls. Also, it cannot be used with Booster, so generally only priests use it.



    ...Also, as an aside. About me not being 8x yet. This is essentially a guide for people 7x or below, preferably much below. If you don't have your LUK capped by level 70 (73 LUK)... Then a Zhelm and the extra LUK on equips will already push you past the requirement for a Codar. You have many more options if you start early. =) It's true that I haven't reached my endgame cap yet, but that's because I'm using a LUK shield. I already have everything planned out to level 200, though.
    Spoiler!

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by whendoom View Post
    With the extremely slow rate of Nexon's release, the general consensus is to cut your losses. The only consideration against the above statement is the last nugget that Nexon has dangled in front of our eyes in the form of elemental weapons. However, the main difference between the lukless version and the luk version is faster casting for the luk version. The int acquired by capping or being lukless should make up the difference in dps between the two weapon; at least in theory.

    As a side note. If my assumption is correct, you're probably beyond the lvl 150 mark. With 50 more lvl to go, you might be done with this game before Nexon releases lvl 150 items. :p
    Indeed, probably cutting my losses now is the best option... should Nexon get wise to the lukless builds and stop pandering to them with so many benefits then it might reverse. My ultimate point though... is that for the purpose of a Guide or a New Player searching for information... I do honestly believe there are but two builds - lukless or standard. The capped luk version that people talk and write about is born (as you've reiterated) from the slow release of higher level weapons.

    That's really my only point... I disagree in advertising a guide or method for "capping" luk since the ultimate/final outcome is more than likely a dismal failure in comparison to lukless and maybe eventually (should they ever get the weapons out) standard builds.

    Oh and nah, I stopped training months ago since it was proving ineffecient and pointless due to the many shortcomings of the "archmage".

  10. #20
    Slime
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    She did say, near the start "If you are just starting out, I recommend being LUKless. "

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