Bush Alert! ESA under attack!

[d3k0y]

Yeah that president bush, nothing comes to mind except hitler when I think of him.
The amount of hyperbole you use, tele, is dumbfounding and hilarious at the same time.

edit: FWS: Fish and Wildlife Services.

[pyrofyr]

World War 2 casualties: 7 million+ german deaths alone
Iraq/Afghanistan conflict: about 5000 give or take
First of all you can't compare lives, and given more time I'm sure Bush would get further. You're also failing to count any of the people killed on our soil, and all of the diseases among other things popping up that have killed people (Can't blame that one on him, but on the Gov't in general)
NNNnnnnnnnnn......Sorry, you haven't convinced me yet. But I'm still open!




Ok. I'm open to new ideas, but I looked at all the links you provided and nobody actually mentions what you say will happen nor do they provide the numbers you're quoting. The ESA (what's the FWS btw? I couldn't find it) is not being cut out, but "reinterpreted"-which also means that it can also be "reinterpreted" by whoever the next prez is. Obama certainly would and even McCain historically has voted against Bush's policies except in foreign affairs.
FWS = Fish and Wildlife Services. They're not it open, as you can see they are planning on not having to 'worry' about this as much. The best one for this specific area (Goes over that a bit better)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2004Jul3.html
The problem however is again that OTHER agencies will be dealing with this, and they're priorities are different. The FWS has done a great job, why change it? Easy. They're destroying habitats and can't justify it, so change the rules of justification.
FYI from your own source at the earthjustice link above:

"By comparison, 253 species were listed during the Reagan administration, 521 under Clinton, and 234 under Bush I."

Clinton "reinterpreted" the law. So why can't the next guy? This sounds more like a few gasps from a lame duck.
Err, not exactly. That's the number added to the 'endangered' species list during their reign. As such, Bush has very low numbers because of the standards. These are animals that would be 'protected' additionally to the normal ones.


Um if you're referring to my post...the "source" is YOUR CNN link up there in your edited first post....I cut and pasted near verbatim from the CNN link. It's about midway down the article.

I'll re-read it then

Call me narrow minded, but this kind of does kind of puts a damper on how nice of a guy I can ever really view Hitler...
And btw, Bush has been described as personable and a nice guy. It doesn't mean I don't think his policies belong in the crapper.

As far as I've seen with Bush, he's a very sneaky person. Although he makes an almost foolproof idiot guy in the media, he obviously isn't if you look at anything he's done. However, acting like an idiot has led him to do some idiotic things (leave many obvious flaws open for interpretation in what he's done). Also things like oil, and him owning major shares. These are all things that indicate that he is smarter than he lets on to be. No 'idiot' invests in oil shares and still has them 10 years down the road.

Too low key for such a goal though...
If he's going to equal Hitler, he has kill 7 million more Americans in the 6 months he has left in office....
Maybe, he'll make trans-fats mandatory in everything and call it a day?

The last thing I heard of as a thread that would come even close to doubling the current numbers is that the next 'terrorist threat' would be to atom bomb an American city. If as previous 'terrorist' threads were said, this one delivers, I'm sorry but chances are I'm moving the hell out of this country.

Yeah that president bush, nothing comes to mind except hitler when I think of him.
The amount of hyperbole you use, tele, is dumbfounding and hilarious at the same time.

edit: FWS: Fish and Wildlife Services.

All I can say is that with what Bush has done in this past this might not be too much of an exaggeration. He only had to kill around 1,000 people for the patriot act but went above and beyond. Any news or knowledge of any of the other planes was quickly closed down. The mall bombing was kept to a minimum news-wise. We're fighting a war in Iraq we could have ended in a month, for how many years now?

Exaggeration with Bush is like saying an elephant is as tall as your house (one story). Although it would seem you'd be 'crazy', you're probably pretty close.

Btw have you forgotten how the address for the "Patriot Act" was verbatim from one of Hitler's speeches?

[krnboy1009]

Hmm, I see what the problem is.

Your system pretty much screwed you guys, all you can do is vote for someone whi isn't crooked.

The system didn't screw us. Fat people did. Which is like, a lot of people. And they are all lazy too.

Ugh. Bush hate here is just unbelievable. You don't even personally know Bush for Christ sake! You probably haven't even been in the same room as him. Jesus Christ, lets get real. You have no idea what Bush is like. this is immaturity at best. just because you do not like what someone is doing doesn't make him necessarily a bad person. You have no evidence that government caused 9/11. None what so ever. I support Patriot Act. Sometimes, at the times or crisis, some human rights has to come second. Like when Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus. Is he a bad president, when he kept this nation together? I am by no means comparing Lincoln to Bush of course.

[Ulyana]

Krn, if you can't look into a person's eyes and get a good assessment of who they are, then I think you're going to have some problems in your adult life. Also don't forget that you must judge a person by their actions. Bush hate seems pretty justified to me.

Ugh, somehow I'm not surprised.

I won't be surprised if he succeeds either. Since most of the American citizens are lazy asses who don't know how to challenge their government. So they feel it's better if they complain and whine about what's happening, rather then to do something about it.

Ah yes. Would you like us to perhaps overthrow the government? We honestly have no choice who runs things. How involved are you in your government? I hope you weren't one of the anti-gun activists, then, because about the only thing we can do at this point is forcefully overthrow it. Elect Obama? Sorry, no. You barely have to pay any attention to see him tell everyone he talks to completely opposite things. He's just as crooked as any.

I heard about this, yes, and I'm not very happy about it. On the other hand, I'm not one of those against drilling for oil (sue me). On the other other hand, NO, Pyro, Bush is not in any way comparable to Hitler. He's not trying to wipe out Muslims or some such thing. I assure you you would KNOW if he was.

The problem is that while this is unfortunate, no one is going to really care about it. We have the election and we have a rather tricky situation in Russia, as well as the fact the Iraq war is still going on.

[pyrofyr]

The system didn't screw us. Fat people did. Which is like, a lot of people. And they are all lazy too.

Ugh. Bush hate here is just unbelievable. You don't even personally know Bush for Christ sake! You probably haven't even been in the same room as him. Jesus Christ, lets get real. You have no idea what Bush is like. this is immaturity at best. just because you do not like what someone is doing doesn't make him necessarily a bad person. You have no evidence that government caused 9/11. None what so ever. I support Patriot Act. Sometimes, at the times or crisis, some human rights has to come second. Like when Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus. Is he a bad president, when he kept this nation together? I am by no means comparing Lincoln to Bush of course.

Woah, woah woah. In 2 years, bias based on fat will be illegal. Also, blaming fat people is the stupidest thing ever.
I wouldn't need to know Bush to realize that the things that he cosigns are stupid. He's a president, everyone knows him, it's like saying "You don't know Hitler, you never sat down with him!" He sure as hell wrote a book giving us insight into his thoughts, and well you know, his whole killing 7million people thing.

NO EVIDENCE? What f'ing world do you LIVE in? Are you that resistant to blatant facts, by people who have worked their whole lives STUDYING THESE FIELDS, going up to the aftermath and being able to say 100% that THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED. HOW IN ALL HELL could you POSSIBLE not understand this?

Support the Patriot Act, do you even understand what the hell it does? Do you understand what parts of it are actually used, and how it differs on paper from actual use? Do you understand the SACRIFICE necessary to START the patriot act?

Krn, if you can't look into a person's eyes and get a good assessment of who they are, then I think you're going to have some problems in your adult life. Also don't forget that you must judge a person by their actions. Bush hate seems pretty justified to me.



Ah yes. Would you like us to perhaps overthrow the government? We honestly have no choice who runs things. How involved are you in your government? I hope you weren't one of the anti-gun activists, then, because about the only thing we can do at this point is forcefully overthrow it. Elect Obama? Sorry, no. You barely have to pay any attention to see him tell everyone he talks to completely opposite thing. He's just as crooked as any.

I heard about this, yes, and I'm not very happy about it. On the other hand, I'm not one of those against drilling for oil (sue me). On the other other hand, NO, Pyro, Bush is not in any way comparable to Hitler. He's not trying to wipe out Muslims or some such thing. I assure you you would KNOW if he was.

The problem is that while this is unfortunate, no one is going to really care about it. We have the election and we have a rather tricky situation in Russia, as well as the fact the Iraq war is still going on.

Pfft, I could compare Bush to Hitler easy, and although he's not against MUSLIMS (obviously), this war is pointless. Hitler wasn't exactly aiming to wipe out just jews thought either, they were two men with two different visions, but both are very destructive. Although I will admit Hitler is worse, my original statement was that it seems as if Bush is aiming to surpass him, obviously he'll never legally get close, but ****, looks like he's trying.

As for Obama, yes he's very crooked, so is McCain, the truth is, a third party is the only option, but as far as I know not many are there, and in all of American history, no third party has won (Correct?).

Yes the Iraq wars and the Georgian War problem is going to be a problem comparing each other, especially because since we trained Georgia, we're going to HAVE to interfere, which will be a bummer.

I just believe that this is one more stupid thing to have to deal with, and that it's bad enough that he's killing off humans that (most of them, tons of casualties aside...) join the army and KNOW of the risks, but animals that are doing all they can to survive in what little of habitat we left them with, but on top of that allowing for endangered species to be further endangered, which inevitable will leave scientists in a few years shaking their heads wondering what the hell America has done.

--
I'm VERY against Bush, and yes I show it, but with what he's done so far (that we know about, no doubt there's more), I put nothing past him and his administration. I also must say, that it's not just him doing all this crap, it's the whole gang, but no doubt he has a decent say in this.

[krnboy1009]

Krn, if you can't look into a person's eyes and get a good assessment of who they are, then I think you're going to have some problems in your adult life. Also don't forget that you must judge a person by their actions. Bush hate seems pretty justified to me.

His actions speaks nothing about being evil. Maybe rash, impatience or incompetent or maybe foolish. Again, when was the last time you even saw Bush personally, face to face? Or even communicated with him? None. Thats when. Yes, you can get basic idea of what man is like to some extent by looking at person's eyes. But again, it says nothing about evil. Some traits, you can't know until you know a person personally.

[WriterInHiding]

Ugh. Bush hate here is just unbelievable. You don't even personally know Bush for Christ sake! You probably haven't even been in the same room as him. Jesus Christ, lets get real. You have no idea what Bush is like. this is immaturity at best. just because you do not like what someone is doing doesn't make him necessarily a bad person. You have no evidence that government caused 9/11. None what so ever. I support Patriot Act. Sometimes, at the times or crisis, some human rights has to come second. Like when Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus. Is he a bad president, when he kept this nation together? I am by no means comparing Lincoln to Bush of course.

I don't really hate Bush. I severely disagree with his policies, but I'm not one of those people who chant the mantra of "worst president ever" and "worst economy ever". I agree that a lot of things he does will be judged through the veil of history and as much as I shudder at the thought, I acknowledge that he potentially could go down as a great President should his actions today (horrifying to me as it is), create a more stable Middle East with an array of allied democratic Arab countries in the midst of them.

History does funny things. Carter made havoc with the domestic economy and was voted out for it, but his foreign policies left us with our only real "friendly" openings in the Middle East. Reagan was by no means thought of as a great President when he left office, but he is now. G.H.W.Bush was criticized as out of touch with proclaiming the economy stable and being too cautious on his foreign policy and subsequently was voted out. Turns out he actually may have been right after all. Clinton was lauded after he left office, yet he's essentially become the Calvin Coolidge of the 90's. (not to mention the slight subtle snub Caroline Kennedy gave him during her speech at the DNC).

Yes, Bush may become a decent President in the hindsight of history, but I don't like how he had to ****** with the country's people, economy, and world standing to do it.

[krnboy1009]

I don't really hate Bush. I severely disagree with his policies, but I'm not one of those people who chant the mantra of "worst president ever" and "worst economy ever". I agree that a lot of things he does will be judged through the veil of history and as much as I shudder at the thought, I acknowledge that he potentially could go down as a great President should his actions today (horrifying to me as it is), create a more stable Middle East with an array of allied democratic Arab countries in the midst of them.

History does funny things. Carter made havoc with the domestic economy and was voted out for it, but his foreign policies left us with our only real "friendly" openings in the Middle East. Reagan was by no means thought of as a great President when he left office, but he is now. G.H.W.Bush was criticized as out of touch with proclaiming the economy stable and being too cautious on his foreign policy and subsequently was voted out. Turns out he actually may have been right after all. Clinton was lauded after he left office, yet he's essentially become the Calvin Coolidge of the 90's. (not to mention the slight subtle snub Caroline Kennedy gave him during her speech at the DNC).

Yes, Bush may become a decent President in the hindsight of history, but I don't like how he had to ****** with the country's people, economy, and world standing to do it.

Thank you. Finally someone who doesn't take Bush personally and ***** about it. You can't take any politicians personally.

[Ulyana]

Actually, I have a strong knack for reading people by seeing them once - not a still picture, but a video is plenty. If I see someone I know instantly whether or not we'll get along. If I say, go against my first impression and become friends with them anyway, I always end up regretting it when the relationship has a terrible breakdown later on.

I understand most people think it's nonsense to judge a person by looking at them, but by my own experience a bit of looking into their eyes has always been a very good indicator.

At any rate, I am probably with the majority of the country in thinking this isn't a very big problem right now. If we elect Obama, he'll probably come in and make sweeping changes that are pro-environment. Bush's days are numbered and he's just trying to go out with a bang.


Edit: I didn't say "worst president ever" or "worst economy ever," as I don't necessarily think that. I am judging him as a human being.

[WriterInHiding]

As for Obama, yes he's very crooked, so is McCain, the truth is, a third party is the only option, but as far as I know not many are there, and in all of American history, no third party has won (Correct?).

Kinda sorta.
The Federalist Party began the nation with Washington and Adams, but they were ostracized after they opposed the 1812 war and more or less fell apart. Republicans claim to have roots in the Federalist party though from their traditions of less government interference.

The Whig party was another party that got a few presidents elected:

1. William Henry Harrison (1841)
2. John Tyler* (1841-1845)
3. Zachary Taylor (1849-1850)
4. Millard Fillmore (1850-1853)

The Whigs supported the supremacy of Congress over the Executive Branch and favored a program of modernization and economic protectionism. The party pretty much tore itself apart when they couldn't unify under whether they were pro or anti slavery. Supposedly most were antislavery and migrated to the "new" Republican party.

The only other close one was Teddy Roosevelt's Bull Moose Party which won quite a few electoral states, but that was really just a bunch of disgruntled Republicans that split the vote and handed victory to Woodrow Wilson.

With the near Mafia power base of today's parties though, I would be surprised if they ever managed to get a 3rd party presidential victory again.