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Thread: Help building a PC (Parts...)

  1. #21
    "King of Quotes" pyrofyr's Avatar
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    Yea, those are a bit huge o_o; I might end up needing to get a bigger case, but the case I have now is kinda decent-sized. :/
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  2. #22

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    Many things in the computer world is standardized. So as long as you don't get an E-ATX motherboard or a proprietary motherboard, a case will definitely fit it.

    32-bit systems limits physical memory to 4GB, while 64-bit systems have a much higher limit. (I forgot the number, but it's pretty high)

    Core2 systems can reach 3.5GHz easily with a cheap and efficient aftermarket cooler. I think it is also stable and cool with a stock cooler. I OC'ed my Core2 to 3.0GHz and it runs at 41C. I had to change it back to stock because I had to swap the memory. I'll start pushing it after I reinstall the OS.

    Virtualization is only important if you plan to run multiple virtual desktops that can utilize the full power of the processor, which I do not think is the case for you.

    If your motherboard and memory are high enough in quality, you can overclock them easily. For motherboard, high quality just means having some sort of heatsinks on the Northbridge, as well as a decent BIOS that supports overclocking. For memory, you need heatsinks, as overclocking can make it run very hot.

    Memory itself is very durable. In fact, you will be limited by your CPU before you're limited by your memory when overclocking. Reason is memory runs at a lower frequency than the actual FSB, but the memory itself can tolerate high frequencies.

    Overclocking only reduces the lifetime if you tinker with the voltage, or heat. If you have a decent cooling system, and if you don't mess around with the voltage overclocking aspect, you will probably have moved onto a newer PC by the time the overclocked PC fails.

    FDD are floppy disk drives. They are measured 3.5in, while regular optical drives measure 5.25in.

    For good thermal management, you only need one PSU fan, one CPU fan, one exhaust fan (80mm or 120mm is standard), one graphics card fan, and good cable management.

    One PSU fan is solely for extracting hot air from the PSU. The CPU fan extracts hot air from the heatsink attached to the CPU. The GPU fan is for extracting hot air from the heatsink atttached to the graphics card. The exhaust fan extracts all hot air inside the case.

    For excellent thermal management, make sure air flow is in one direction. What that means is don't have exhaust fans in different directions. That screws up the aerodynamics and messes up the heat extraction efficiency. I've tried it. I've tried one exhaust fan vs. two exhaust fans in different directions. My CPU temp raised 20C. So the best thing for thermal management is uniform airflow. One direction to another.

    Intake is just a dust sucker. An exhaust fan sucks in air in order to blow it out, and your case is not a vacuum, so an exhaust fan really sucks in cool air, and blows out the hot. An intake fan sucks in cool air and blows out cool air. It makes minimal difference in temp. You're better off without it. You save power, and free your computer of dust.

    Of course, a decent CPU cooler is needed to achieve minimal dust, but high heat transfer efficiency. Stock coolers work, but some aftermarket are way better.

    Cable management is also very important. If your cables are all over the place, aerodynamics is corrupted and air flow efficiency will diminish. Cable-ties and fastners are your friend. Use them wisely. A rule of thumb for me is to try and fasten most cables in two position. One near the bottom-right of the motherboard, one at the top right. The cables also must not touch any heat-generating component like memory, CPU heatsink, Northbridge heatsink, etc. When you accomplish this, you can be certain air flow efficiency is the best.

  3. #23
    "King of Quotes" pyrofyr's Avatar
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    Wow, that was a lot of info in one post. Answered most of my questions right there.

    -Gives it a few hours to sink in-

    I remember reading on cooling before, and I'm going to guess that I should avoid those liquid cooling systems, they always seemed a bit awkward to me, since if anything pops well there goes your system! but heh...

    Anyway, if this is the case, should I take off the CPU thingy now, cause it's ont he side of the case? I should definitely have room to position the fans, and it's wide enough where I can also manage my cables with no problems (and I have tons of cable ties... I'm a cable tie freak = =;)
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  4. #24

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    Nowadays, liquid cooling is made of non-conductive fluids. What that means is that it doesn't conduct. So if you spill some on your parts, they will not short circuit.

    I think water cooling is pointless if you are not extremely wealthy. Although it drops thermal temps for the system by 10C or so, it is not worth it for the price. A good water cooling system can go into the thousands, and they will only eliminate about 10C. You can calculate yourself the bang for buck ratio.

    The main reason people spend so much on water cooling is because of noise and dust. With external radiators, fans are concentrated outside of the PC, making it easier to clean the dust off. Thus, not as much dust gets sucked into the PC because there are no other fans in the PC. With internal radiators, people just aim to cool off 10C. It still sucks in dust, and blows out hot air. Noise is another factor. Since water is easier to cool, less fans are needed. And when less fans are needed, there is less noise.


    For a mainstream or budget PC, water cooling is completely unnecessary. DC (Direct Current) fans already provides enough cooling.

    If you have a CPU exhaust fan on the side, DO NOT put a system exhaust fan. The system exhaust port is at the back of your case, while the CPU exhaust is at the side of your case. If both are on, aerodynamics screws up. What I recommend is putting a system exhaust fan and ditching the CPU exhaust fan.

    Reason being, the system exhaust fan extracts a lot of heat from the system. A CPU exhaust fan primarily extracts heat from the CPU. Plus, your CPU fan is already pushing hot air into the direct path of the air flow. And also, system exhaust fans are set standard at 2 80mm fans, or 1-2 120mm fans, depending on your case. MOST CPU exhaust ports only fit a 80mm fan.

  5. #25
    "King of Quotes" pyrofyr's Avatar
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    Will do then, it has 2 screws that I can use to take it off without a problem.

    Also, wow I didn't know that liquid cooling wasn't that great, the original articles I read on different 'types' of cooling (I have it around here somewhere @_@) was comparing them and it seemed pretty cool, oh well :P

    I'm fairly sure I'm going to go ahead and get enough money for the PC by late January (about as long as it takes to get my money back from school).
    Gone with the wind

  6. #26

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    Don't get me wrong. Liquid cooling is very awesome. It looks great, has pros in heat exchange efficiency, etc. But the turn off factor is the cost and the maintenance. You have to do a mock-setup and run the water cooling system for 24 hours to let things stabilize and to detect any leaks. Then, you have to build your system around the water blocks, because if you remove and re-add them, leaks may occur. So it is a bit of a hassle to get it started.

    Then, you have to change the liquid coolant every so often, depending on how much you use your system.

    So while it looks cool, it's not worth it. Unless, you have tons of money and tons of time.

    Just as a bit of info, there are 4 types of pratical cooling. They are listed from worst to best OVERALL.

    Passive cooling rely only on heatsinks to extract heat. People use it for low maintenance, low heat producing systems like home theater PC's. No fans means no dust moving in. Also it is very silent, because there are no moving parts for cooling.

    Active/standard/DC fan cooling rely on heatsinks and fans to extract heat. Overall, it is more efficient than heatsink only, but there is more noise and a higher maintenance factor, due to dust moving around.

    Water cooling rely on water blocks, coolant, pump, and a radiator to extract heat. It is more efficient than those previously mentioned, but have a high maintenance and cost factor. A very thorough water cooling company that designs blocks for everything (CPU, memory, NB, SB, voltage regulators, GPU, HDD, motherboard, etc.) is Koolance.

    Phase cooling rely on blocks, some sort of heat extractor fluid, pump, and radiator. Phase cooling is the most efficient. What most phase coolers do is take liquid water and turn it into gas. Basically changing its phase. At the gas stage, heat extraction is the most efficient. Then it turns back into water to be cooled and recyled back into the system. Unless you are a modder, there is no way to customize phase coolers. Most of them are pre-assembled, and there is no way of modding the blocks, tubing, etc. to fit your style. It has the highest cost, and highest maintenance. You need to change the fluid more regularly than water cooling. Such companies include CoolIt.

  7. #27
    "King of Quotes" pyrofyr's Avatar
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    I heard of the phase cooling, but that seemed quite expensive as well, and more 'ooh lala'.

    I'll stick with the fans, for sure. :]
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  8. #28

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    You shouldn't worry too much about cooling, 45nm processors have made it something of the past almost.

    EDIT:

    As always, OCforums has great info on how to do cooling effectively:
    http://www.ocforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=6

  9. #29

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    This is a list I built.
    https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/M...px?ID=14121847

    The list assumes that you are not going to run multiple GPU's, you have fans, a case, optical drives, hard drives, and cables already purchased.

    If you want quad core, 4 more GB of memory for that 64-bit OS, and multiple GPU support, it will go into the upper $600s. Multiple GPU supporting boards still run in the mid $120s, even for the older generations. If you upgrade that, the PSU will have to be upgraded to support multiple GPUs.

  10. #30
    "King of Quotes" pyrofyr's Avatar
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    Okay, another question... Would I need multiple GPUs to dualbox?

    That's not something I want to worry about with this PC, but I do want to worry about it on the one after it.


    Also thanks for the list, and yeah I have 1 fan in the front, 1 in the back, I have cd/dvd combo drives laying around, and some from my old pc, I'll get the HDD after, and the case came with all the cables I should need (I believe, I saw most of 'em inside).
    Gone with the wind

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