Going In Deep: Swords VS Auxiliary Weapons

[FrenchConnexUK]

Bleh. I was exhausted after ultimate last night and forgot to sign on for the ss. I'll try and remember after volleyball tonight (woo busy me <_<).
The guide is shaping up nicely though :) And uh oh stalks on Broa! Too bad I baaarely have time to play during the week anymore :'(


I guess not all of us just go for the "best" or "greatest" thing in the game. Something to be said for having fun and that not everyone likes the same thing, hmm? Anyway I didn't check your math, but its quite easy to correct someone when they are wrong without coming off as a ****. Congrats on being one.

I just kinda took it as constructiveness rather than him acting like whatever word was censored there.

I will still find you one day! >=(

Annd, hurts pointed out some things involving the damage multipliers and being taken into account for the range, which I need to investigate because I've never actually heard that before. To southperry~

[thathurt]

I guess not all of us just go for the "best" or "greatest" thing in the game. Something to be said for having fun and that not everyone likes the same thing, hmm? Anyway I didn't check your math, but its quite easy to correct someone when they are wrong without coming off as a ****. Congrats on being one.

If you wish to play that way, it's perfectly fine. I was just pointing out the severe diadvantages of doing so and fixing up the math a little. But, really, in the end, it's actually pretty hard to compare the weapons because of such significant differences in price.

As I said before, with BWs, you can get away with it because of the price. However, when it comes to axes, we start to encounter a lot of problems. First off, you're 8%/2% (2-h/1-h) weaker per attack. This is probably the least of your problems since you can easily overcome this with the higher base attacks, cheaper prices, etc. When you start considering weapon speed, things start to get a little scarier. While early levels axes have the same speeds, the later ones are always at least 4/8% slower, sometimes up to 20% when you start utilizing lionhearts, jap maps, etc. So, once again, this is another hit. Lastly, brandish slaps on a nice 11% penalty for you. So, looking at the numbers...

2-h: 92% * 96% * 89% = 78.6%
1-h: 98% * 92% * 89% = 80.2%

So, looking at these numbers we can easily see the axe saders do have a severe disadvantage. Now, if you don't care about the damage, go ahead. It only means that swords will be that much cheaper for everyone else.

Hurtss, i expected you to do something like that on the first page of posts.
What's wrong with you?!

I don't check the warrior section much. :x

[FrenchConnexUK]

Every noob that asks me if they should use Swords or Auxes, I tell them swords. Because you shouldn't use Aux weapons unless you know what you're doing; if you don't, you'll get to 70, realize that you messed yourself up a lot, and then quit and you will have wasted a load of time.

People like d3k0y know that they WANT to use swords and are aware that they'll be weaker because of it. That's why d3k0y's always been my inspiration; he's a hard-fast Axe supporter because it's what he likes.

@thathurt, what do the percentages represent in those calculations in your above post?

[d3k0y]

I know axes have a disadvantage better than even you do. I also knew going in that it would be that way. My problem with you is the condescending way you present the fact that we made a conscious choice in our character development. Defensive, yeah prolly.

Anyway.

But, really, in the end, it's actually pretty hard to compare the weapons because of such significant differences in price.

False. In no way does that invalidate or change the comparison. For axes vs swords you are comparing the only two options of a hero, how does a factor involved in one of those somehow make them unable to be compared? And even though axes are "cheap" because they are in less demand the general trend is that it is typically just as expensive and hard to scroll a similar axe to a good sword. Basically because axes are HARD to find people npc them all the time and the choices are few and far in between. To get a good high leveled clean axe is not only difficult but often very pricey. There is also a lack of a decent amount of pre-scrolled axes for anything remotely cheap.
To give you an idea I have a self scrolled 10str/118atk colonian (level90 axe). I would estimate it cost me about 80mil and 15k nx to scroll. Sure the individual axes were obtained over a REALLY REALLY long time for pretty cheap (you could hunt the deals for clean swords too!), but it adds up just the same as if it were a sword. Worst part is that my only options are to scroll or spend hundreds upon hundreds of millions of meso (or like 100k nx) on a pre-scrolled one. I can also resell my axe for prolly over a 100mil...if you were to buy a (whats the lvl 90 sword? DS?) for the same price it would be VERY similarly scrolled.
So in my opinion the cheapness of axes is almost a fallacy, if you want something like a decent sword the price difference starts to disappear VERY rapidly. If you want a craptastic axe, then yeah, it is super cheap.

<3 FrenchConnexUK
Yeah long before I knew anything about axes/swords/bws i thought the Helios was the coolest weapon in the game. After I learned about the MS engine and how sadfaced axes can be I wanted to play all the more :P (Does the term Beyond Naked Mage from diablo 1 ring any bells for people <_<)

[DaosBeoulve]

Morningstars are normal speed, and are great weapons to use from 80-120 simply because of their increased range. Once a BW page hits 120, it's time to find a nice attack shield + crushed skull, but until then, the range of a 1h weapon makes them subpar (you'd also need an obscenely scrolled shield + bw to match up to a ~120 morningstar, so it's also cheaper to just get a nice mstar and switch to the skull at 120).

1h range still sucks without blast in 4th, but at least you have rush to pile all the enemies right on top of each other.

[FrenchConnexUK]

Just adding something about the price, a DrK friend of mine scrolled a 116att Demon Axe and MTS'd it for 100k NX. That's not too cheap, right? =P

[MorningL1ght]

116 atk, is there a color after yellow? So he scrolled it to have 31 atk above the avg base? But let's say it was 86 base, only +30. That's 6 out of 7 10/30%s working. Obviously it's going to sell for alot ._.

[shomshom]

but I'll always like and use Axes because they're just that hot

axe power man!

[FrenchConnexUK]

Yeah, I believe it was 6 30s and a failed 60 (lol).

but that just proves that a good scrolling will sell for the same price, not discriminating between swords and auxes.

EDIT: Asked the owner, it was 88att clean, 4 30s and 2 60s making 112 att in the end. Sorry for mistakes ^_^"

[Morgana]

Sorry about reminding you about Brandish, Mike. You did end up going hybrid still, right? Because you should totally get a Stonetooth. It at least looks kinda like an axe. xD

Night Raven's Wing is Fast (5). source

If you have not read this guide, you should see it. It could give you some ideas. =)

Speed is really important. My 101 attack Rohen (which is Normal(6)) is outdamaged in DPS by my 84 attack Japanese Map (which is Fast(4)). Actually, Fast(4) swords are like... playing a bandit with a warrior's skills. Especially with the powerful 2h sword formula, they are pretty broken. Japanese Map does have a disadvantage, though. There are 4 sword ranges (physical, as in how far it can reach) in the data. Japanese Map has the short 2h sword range, which is only about 20 pixels longer than a long 1h sword's range. (Most high-level 1h swords are long-range.)

Japanese Maps aren't really rare anymore, though. They drop from Leprechauns IIRC.

-shameless sword hoar-