I wanna get stickied too! (HP-Lukless Cleric)

[bulmabriefs144]

Why I did this guide
First off, this build sounds insane right? Well, it actually works, but it may only work for the cleric due to the Heal ability. Otherwise, it demands alot of pots, but since you're likely trading HP pots for MP, it probably doesn't matter.

Magic Guard sucks. In theory, it saves your life by converting HP into MP damage. But in practice, for a cleric this mean you'll probably die the next turn anyway if you are low on pots, and probably be drinking pots like water simply due to the fact that every time a big enemy comes along (or even a mid-level non-boss enemy), you start to have to waste portions of your own Mp to heal yourself, which should be helped along by the MP eater, but really kinda isn't.

After losing to Alishar, I decided to change this. I hated wasting half my income to survive enemies that were doing like 600, when I'd rather spam heal, support, and possibly even fight pretty well. After shelling out a ton of money finding a strong enough build (and ultimately deciding that LUK wasn't much good), I came up with this, and since then I tried the Dojo and managed to solo Fish Bar, which normally kills most of the party (and did, that time). I normally die on Crogs tho, since the damage either will 1hko me or with MG render me at a point where I need to use 40% pots.

Traits of this build
What you won't find is a magically weak magician (though it may be weaker than it should be, due to lower equips). I did my best to raise INT as high as possible (unlike the HP Warrior, which raises HP as high as possible)
The following are pros and cons of this build:

PROS

• High HP (Mines at 1796 at level 80, with only a +35 helm, and a Maple Wisdom Staff)
• Medium-High Damage (Highest at about 3000 for holy-weak enemies, compared to STR mage, which is difficult at any level since lower damage means MP runs out quicker)
• Good Magic Defense
• Allows continuous grind with no pots (unless you need MG)
• Helpful in Dojo since you can fight with everyone

CONS

• Low Luk (and everything that comes with it)
• Possibly lower than normal MP (resulting in crappy MG)
• Slower than normal grind, meaning Himes you might actually run out of MP while spamming
• You have to monitor your healing alot, since you are trying to save on pots
• Somewhat complicated to equip, missing the better equips of LUK build, but about the damage of LUK builds without them.

SKILLS

Magician
Lvl 8: +1 Energy Bolt
Lvl 9: +3 Improving MP Recovery
Lvl 10: +2 Improving MP Recovery, +1 Max MP Increase
Lvl 11-13: +3 Max MP Increase (Maxed)
Lvl 14-20: +3 Energy Bolt/ Magic Claw
Lvl 21: +1 Energy Bolt/ +2 Magic Claw (Maxed), +1 or +2 Improving MP Recovery
Lvl 22-23: +3 Improving MP Recovery
Lvl 24: +3 Improving MP Recovery/ +2 Improving MP Recovery, +1 Magic Guard
Lvl 25-30: Try to max out Magic Guard (I hate it, but it's still helpful)

Cleric
Lvl 30: +1 Teleport
Lvl 31-40: +3 Heal (Maxed)
Lvl 41-46: +3 MP Eater/Invincible
Lvl 47: +2 MP Eater/Invincible, +1 Teleport
Lvl 48-54: +3 Teleport (Maxed)
Lvl 55-60: +3 MP Eater/Invincible (then max it)
Lvl 61-70: +3 Holy Arrow (max)
(My math sucks here and elsewhere btw, but I ended up with everything maxed except Bless, which was 1)

Priest
Lvl 70: +1 SR
Lvl 71-76: +3 Elemental Resist
Lvl 77: +2 Elemental Resist (Max), +1 Dispel
Lvl 78-80: +3 Dispel
(The furthest I've gotten so far due to an extreme choice between slow grind and dangerous grind (I can solo MDTs and phantom watches directly, the latter with some trouble) is level 80. I'm about 31% into it, but the fact that I can't really do Himes now kinda sucks)
Lvl 81-83: +3 Dispel
Lvl 84: +1 Dispel, +2 SR
Lvl 85-89: +3 SR
Lvl 90: +2 SR, +1 Holy Symbol
Lvl 91-100: Max out Symbol
Lvl 101-110: Max out Dragon (you don't have better equips or higher INT, just do it)
Lvl 111-120: Finish with whatever you want
(I'm not going into Bishop, it's too based on items anyway)


The basics I believe should be raised first, since it means when all else is working against you, you can at least recover MP fast. This is also my reasoning behind an early MP Eater later on. I almost never use MG except against critters like Papulatus, and then only in the absence of a DK. Personally, I chose Claw by the end, but they have their own strength and weaknesses.

Bolt:

• Easy to see and re-position
• Deals fairly decent damage for less MP, less of overkill
• Animation shows up anywhere

Claw:

• 2 hits (damage is more unstable though)
• Unavoidable/ignores more barriers
• DPS is better

Seriously, I've tried them both, and considering the damage stability of Bolt, they're about the same in the end, considering to magic use.

Clerics need defense, mobility, MP, and the ability to heal for this build. All of these need to be done in rapid succession. By the time you are a reasonable level, due to the fact that Orbis PQ is crummy and Pirate is even crummier, you may very well be soloing creatures (I started on DTs way under level, and just grinded, until eventually I could face them without using safe spots). Eventually, you will probably get tired of only using heal, and you need something good to use against enemies which are dark but not undead. Finally, I decided after all this soloing that party members which ask for Bless didn't bother to raise DEX properly (quit whining). Holy Symbol is another matter, and I encourage you to rearrange this if desired.

At Priest level, you will want to raise Elemental Resist to withstand alot of damage from energy types, in addition to your high hp. You also will need Dispel, since enemies are starting to use status effects, and your party members have a valid need to Dispel (also, you can dispel enemies of their buffs). Then maxing out SR damage will help you massively in leveling, since it becomes stronger than HA. Finally, the Dragon Summon means you can double attack.


The Build
My current stats at level 80 are:
1796 HP (most of this are in HP without equips)
2.6k MP (I used NX to push MP into either INT or HP)
385 INT
4 LUK (plus equip bonuses)

Technically, you can start this process at level 40 and have 360 INT, by switching from 5 INT per level to 4 INT:1 HP. Or you could start at level 70, and be possibly converting MP to HP along the way (using NX), and have up to 390 hp naturally. If HP goes up naturally with the class up, you may be able to simply do this. Still, it's better to have enough to withstand Papa Pixie yourself without MG, because it means by the time you actually do get to the appropriate level, you'll be able to grind strong enemies without worry about the ranged attacks killing you. Generally, lowering MP is not okay since it interferes with MG, but since you have Improving MaxMP, it builds pretty quickly. What this means is that you get a greater threshold for normal hits, but a lower one with MG. Once you can withstand the average enemy, I'd advise letting it build naturally.


Where I trained
1-8: Maple Island (duh)
9-10: Slimes (btw, I first tried STR mage)
11-15: Orange Mushies
16-20: Green Mushies (didn't know about PQ for awhile, this was my second class made)
21-30: All the normal stuff except PQ
31-40: Ratz (Switched over from STR to LUK)
41-50: Ludi PQ/Ant Hill (started raising HP because Alishar killed meh, low luk HP)
51-60ish: Orbis PQ and Ludi Maze PQ (by the end of this, I could withstand a Taurospear, but couldn't really hurt them)
61-70: started with DTs and MDTs (gradually switched over to higher HP, lower luk)
70-80: MDT and Phantom Watch (eventually switched to lukless)

[SienZ1991]

This should be stickied to show people what not to do with their priest characters. Magic Claw pawns Energy Bolt hands down, plus since you claim they're pretty much the same, why max both ? Just pick one and the choice is pretty obvious. Clerics are a support class for a reason, support skills like blessing.

Using NX to move MP to HP is just plain stupid, because of your increase Max MP skill, you end up losing more MP than the HP you gain, resulting in a reduction in your EHP. Maxed Dragon is kinda pointless since Bahamut replaces it, MG does not suck. Without MG you're as good as a Warrior without Increase Max HP. MP eater is there for a reason and you can choose to train without MG on =.="'

[maplemanluvr]

This si a stupid guide. Why on earth would you not max magic guard? Just because you don't want your mp used up. Energy Bolt sucks. EVERYBODY MAX MAGIC GUARD NOT ENERGY BOLT.

[Tesiqurasa]

I don't exactly understand this build. I mean, it COULD be a novelty like Perma-Beginner, but it is in NO WAY practical.
By lvl 70, this build has all but no benefits.

1. How exactly does Magic Guard suck? This skill is what allows mages to stay alive because it pretty much lets mages take 20% damage. Until you hit 80 or so, this MP loss can almost always be regained with MP eater, and after lvl 80, you NEED MG to train well. Since clerics regenerate MP and can heal, Magic Guard saves you a TON of money, and gives you one of the highest "HP" in the game.

2. Magic Bolt has been proven several times to be less effective than Claw. At the very least, Claw passes through obstacles while bolt does not.

3. Why on earth did you not max bless? Aren't you TRYING to have more def? Since everything 1-2 hits you, you're going to be spamming heal anyways.

4. You're HP is very low, even if you ARE washing. You will NEVER be able to survive any decent monster after 120. You're INT is very low considering you can't equip luk weapons to make up for it. Your MP is probably going to be too low to ever Genesis without potting EVERY attack, let alone Genesis at 120.

5. The reason training is so slow for you is you
a) didn't max Holy Symbol
b) went with a fail build

I'm sorry for being so harsh, but this build just shouldn't exist. You didn't write it with the novelty of a Perma-Noob or Str-Mage, you're trying to pass it off as a practical build. Not only this, but you were very harsh toward other builds as well.

[rasudoken]

Oh hey, i want to make a stickied guide too?

but to the point, you have it all wrong (mostly)

1) A cleric's HP does not affect how much HP is healed
2) Magic Guard does not suck, reverting hp into mp is no different than taking a full hit, since at those levels, you should be using sorcerer elixirs which is a 1:1 meso:mp ratio.
3) Holy Arrow sucks, if your whole idea of being a blood cleric revolve around soloing, then sure, go for it, but the Cleric class is mainly for support.
4) Elemental Resistance first? i don't really encourage this since, it doesn't help training much.
5) Wasting NX on this character? I'm afraid you've added a worst meaning to wasting money as it is

*edit*
inb4ed

[Poisonous]

SienZ pretty much summed up this whole thread. Clerics are made to support. If you don't want to support, don't become a cleric, make an assassin or something. But here's my input:

After losing to Alishar, I decided to change this. I hated wasting half my income to survive enemies that were doing like 600, when I'd rather spam heal, support, and possibly even fight pretty well. After shelling out a ton of money finding a strong enough build (and ultimately deciding that LUK wasn't much good), I came up with this, and since then I tried the Dojo and managed to solo Fish Bar, which normally kills most of the party (and did, that time). I normally die on Crogs tho, since the damage either will 1hko me or with MG render me at a point where I need to use 40% pots.

hi you won't be at dojo forever

Traits of this build
What you won't find is a magically weak magician (though it may be weaker than it should be, due to lower equips). I did my best to raise INT as high as possible (unlike the HP Warrior, which raises HP as high as possible)
The following are pros and cons of this build:

PROS

• High HP (Mines at 1796 at level 80, with only a +35 helm, and a Maple Wisdom Staff) If you wanted this, go make a warrior
• Medium-High Damage (Highest at about 3000 for holy-weak enemies, compared to STR mage, which is difficult at any level since lower damage means MP runs out quicker) STR mages aren't meant to be top tier damage classes to begin with
• Good Magic Defense A zhelm and ht pendant will basically kill the need for any regardless of class
• Allows continuous grind with no pots (unless you need MG)MP runs out eventually and mp eater won't work forever
• Helpful in Dojo since you can fight with everyone See answer at top

CONS

• Low Luk (and everything that comes with it) This isn't a pro or con. if anything, it's a pro due to higher damage from int
• Possibly lower than normal MP (resulting in crappy MG) So make this a pro by following a normal build
• Slower than normal grind, meaning Himes you might actually run out of MP while spamming wouldn't happen on a normal build so long as you paid attention
• You have to monitor your healing alot, since you are trying to save on pots Priests are supposed to be healing a lot anyway
• Somewhat complicated to equip, missing the better equips of LUK build, but about the damage of LUK builds without them. hi lukless equips

The basics I believe should be raised first, since it means when all else is working against you, you can at least recover MP fast. This is also my reasoning behind an early MP Eater later on. I almost never use MG except against critters like Papulatus, and then only in the absence of a DK. Personally, I chose Claw by the end, but they have their own strength and weaknesses.

dks won't want to party with you if you don't have bless. and if you tell them to stop whining about accuracy problems, they can simply tell you to stop whining about partying them when they reject you

[OrangeGuy]

Too bad this build doesn't work because the damage formula for Heal is not based on HP.

[Morgana]

Oh hey, i want to make a stickied guide too?

but to the point, you have it all wrong (mostly)

1) A cleric's HP does not affect how much HP is healed
2) Magic Guard does not suck, reverting hp into mp is no different than taking a full hit, since at those levels, you should be using sorcerer elixirs which is a 1:1 meso:mp ratio.
3) Holy Arrow sucks, if your whole idea of being a blood cleric revolve around soloing, then sure, go for it, but the Cleric class is mainly for support.
4) Elemental Resistance first? i don't really encourage this since, it doesn't help training much.
5) Wasting NX on this character? I'm afraid you've added a worst meaning to wasting money as it is

This.

HP washing on a magician has its time and place, but NOT when you are doing it. When you get to middle and high 4th job, you will be leveling with a lot of INT (especially if you went for a normal build!), so you will gain more and more MP per level. For most magicians, HP is always the limiting factor to take a hit, even if you're wearing HP equips. In late 4th job, this gets to be skewed enough, and you have enough total MP, that you will gain effective HP when HP washing without sacrificing another cast of your ultimate. Most people still don't do it, because it's a lot of expense for little benefit, and they can already tank all the damage they want.

However, HP washing has NO place at level 80. You will be crying over every couple hundred MP you're missing early in 4th job.

Speaking of early in 4th, you are going to struggle with damage. At least with a LUK build, the loss of INT is (partially) canceled out by greater INT and MATK on equips. Every 5 INT you lost to HP is another level you won't be able to hit a new milestone, 2-hitting Skeles, 3-hitting... Heck, I doubt you'd even 100% 4hko in your 12x, unless your equips are better than I think. Even then... what a waste of good equips, to use to salvage a weak character rather than to improve an already good one.

Good luck soloing until 100 with Holy Symbol so late and no SR until late... By the time you're suggesting maxing SR, Heal will overtake it in damage again within 20 levels. You don't need ER and Dispel so early... One point in ER gives a LOT of benefit if you really want to reduce magic damage, but it's not worth maxing so soon, especially because it doesn't help at Himes, Newts, or Skeles since their attacks aren't elemental. Meanwhile... exactly what "enemies use status effects" before level 90, besides bosses? And when you boss, plenty of people just prefer to use an All-Cure rather than rely on the priest/bishop to Dispel. Especially at that level, even bosses don't use status effects that often... Dojo is fine and all, but you should not build your character for it.

Yes, fine, you have as much base HP as my bishop does at 145. But if you want HP, just get some HP equips... I have over +700 HP in equips, if I want to use them. But there is hardly anywhere I really need to use them. I want INT when I train, and I don't need extra HP at most bosses because I use my 12k base MP to help me tank the damage. Usually, I would also have HB. Yes, there are advantages to being able to take a hit without MG, like being less vulnerable to a boss's dispel... but to do that, you need to take the hit without Invincible as well. It's just not feasible.

If you want to train without MG, get some HP equips. Just HP gloves and a Wisdom Staff, along with a scrolled Pig Headband or the DEF from a Zhelm, is a good start. Then you could go for a Deputy Star. Or you could just get HB from those DKs and DrKs you've been shunning for wanting Bless...

You could be at Himes right now getting well over 50%/hour, without 2x or 4x. And you wouldn't need MG even with normal HP, if you had a few HP equips or HB. I don't want to be mean, but this is the truth.

I like that my class can be a tank, don't get me wrong. But there are many sides to a character. And honestly, if you like tanking things, get more INT, get party skills, and level up or get HP equips to get more HP... That way, you can kill things better AND make your party happy AND be a tank.

EDIT: Claw isn't more unstable than Bolt, it's the other way around. Claw having two hits stabilizes it. If you were doing 300/500 with Claw, that's the same as 400/400 in total, where Bolt might range from 600-1k (if Bolt even had the same damage as Claw, which it doesn't). Yeah, you'd still hit 300/300 sometimes, but it's less likely because you have to randomly get two low damages, not just one.

EDIT2: I don't believe the OP ever said that HP helps Heal damage. The OP is focused on adding HP for survivability...

[Thorr]

When I look at this build, I can only say one thing -

You are a complete coward.

This build is completely based on fear of death. What you don't realize is that this build will CAUSE your death.

[bulmabriefs144]

This should be stickied to show people what not to do with their priest characters. Magic Claw pawns Energy Bolt hands down, plus since you claim they're pretty much the same, why max both ? Just pick one and the choice is pretty obvious. Clerics are a support class for a reason, support skills like blessing.

Using NX to move MP to HP is just plain stupid, because of your increase Max MP skill, you end up losing more MP than the HP you gain, resulting in a reduction in your EHP. Maxed Dragon is kinda pointless since Bahamut replaces it, MG does not suck. Without MG you're as good as a Warrior without Increase Max HP. MP eater is there for a reason and you can choose to train without MG on =.="'

Try READING before criticizing please. A slash typically denotes an OR statement. I tried alot of different things before settling on this, and I've come to disagree with the statement that clerics are a "support" class. Every class was made so that it could do well on its own or else they wouldn't have made it. Clerics/Priests/Bishops are good against undead and dark enemies. So really, the ONLY difference is that some HP is put in. Comparing this to the (what is it now, 3rd version?) Str Mage, I don't see why this is so odd. At least mine does tolerable damage.

I never said you MUST use NX to bump this, I said you CAN, in fact at 360 which it was earlier, damage was still very good. Don't knock things until you've tried them. I've tried MG (while fighting Papulatus) and I found I needed a ton of potions to stay alive (would have anyway, due to one of his abilities which seems to 1/1 drain).

Too bad this build doesn't work because the damage formula for Heal is not based on HP.

I'm aware of this. This is not why I built the class, but so that I could ignore MG for all but the worst enemies.

Oh hey, i want to make a stickied guide too?

but to the point, you have it all wrong (mostly)

1) A cleric's HP does not affect how much HP is healed
2) Magic Guard does not suck, reverting hp into mp is no different than taking a full hit, since at those levels, you should be using sorcerer elixirs which is a 1:1 meso:mp ratio.
3) Holy Arrow sucks, if your whole idea of being a blood cleric revolve around soloing, then sure, go for it, but the Cleric class is mainly for support.
4) Elemental Resistance first? i don't really encourage this since, it doesn't help training much.
5) Wasting NX on this character? I'm afraid you've added a worst meaning to wasting money as it is

1) Yes, I'm aware of this. I never cited this as a reason.
2)You're missing the point. The point is that the cleric/priest bishop should be able to spam heal, rather than having most of their MP locked up in a technique. It's like having a million dollars which the government has license to spend before you get to use it. If you don't gain access to all that extra MP because it's taken as damage, then what good is it to everyone else?
3)It's a rather odd attempt at a hybrid. First, the HA keeps enemies at range (until SR is strong enough to own them), then the HP is strong enough to solo everything up to about a Elderwraith (and it only gets stronger as I level, since both INT and HP go up at 4:1 rate). The party aspect of it involves using the HP to pretty much act as a tank.
4) Part of the build setup is that it is defensive > offensive. The offensive, I tried to keep high enough to deal about an average of 2.5k damage on 1st and 2nd class skills, but mainly I wanted to cut down on what I took, so that I didn't HAVE to have 5k hp (that's the very thing that sux about HP warriors, they're weak). Re-read the guide, I very clearly stated that my emphasis was making stronger than 4:1 per level in INT.
5) It's my money. I also said you could raise it naturally, starting at about level 40 or 50. Then, it's only a delayed 4:1 build which I really don't see the problem with that.

I don't exactly understand this build. I mean, it COULD be a novelty like Perma-Beginner, but it is in NO WAY practical.
By lvl 70, this build has all but no benefits.

1. How exactly does Magic Guard suck? This skill is what allows mages to stay alive because it pretty much lets mages take 20% damage. Until you hit 80 or so, this MP loss can almost always be regained with MP eater, and after lvl 80, you NEED MG to train well. Since clerics regenerate MP and can heal, Magic Guard saves you a TON of money, and gives you one of the highest "HP" in the game.

2. Magic Bolt has been proven several times to be less effective than Claw. At the very least, Claw passes through obstacles while bolt does not.

3. Why on earth did you not max bless? Aren't you TRYING to have more def? Since everything 1-2 hits you, you're going to be spamming heal anyways.

4. You're HP is very low, even if you ARE washing. You will NEVER be able to survive any decent monster after 120. You're INT is very low considering you can't equip luk weapons to make up for it. Your MP is probably going to be too low to ever Genesis without potting EVERY attack, let alone Genesis at 120.

1. You regenerate MP anyway. Mines usually at near the top, and for an hour of training DTs I'm typically haven't even used up mana. And I certainly haven't needed to go back for pots. After I level up a few times, the same will be true for MDTs and Phantom Watches, then eventually Grims. When I'm strong enough to defeat Himes without relying on MG, I can pretty much stay there (which is very good, since typically Himes don't give you much space to pot, unless you have auto pot, which believe me is a TON more expensive than using a one time MP wash to HP since you need to keep pets alive). Plus, if I actually party with a DK, I actually do benefit, since the 40% bonus is 40% of the MaxHP.
2. They're about even. Trust me, I've field-tested it. The barrier ignore and DPS is better (which is what eventually convinced me to SWITCH (read ppl)), but the % accuracy or whatever is 60% per two hits (making it more like 30% each). In other words, back when I was at 1k damage, Bolt did 1k damage by itself, or 900 or 1100. Doing half that each, Claw did 500x2, 400x2, or 600x2. Bolt was a little less MP each (which resulted in increased MP savings back before INT was so high, and MP eater was so good that you'd regenerate anyway). But, once I could regenerate, I SWITCHED to Claw, because the DPS is faster (I tested this soloing Alishar in Dojo, HA I timed out because it was about as fast as Bolt, while Claw I won with time to spare).
3. Bless is a numeric amount. Invincible is a % amount. Since most of the critters I fight are not like those in Showa, it makes more sense to work with this sort of defense. Besides MDEF works some against any type of atk, to a lesser extent.
4. I won't deny this. But there are safe spots in many of the training areas (or ladders), and I could just rest for awhile. As for never being able to, INT also increases MDEF which is the bulk of the damage I receive. That, comibined with 50% elemental def, covers a wide variety of sins. By the time I need to do the 4th class quest, I should be able to take hits at least 3000 without HB, and close to 4200 with it. As for Genesis, some of the class increases are likely automatic. Look at it this way, MaxMP gives alot of extra MP, which can be dropped to the normal limit. Once that limit is no longer dropped, it raises again, and perhaps by the time I'm 135 or so it might be enough to use it once. If my HP is enough to survive hits, and my INT is enough to pwn high level enemies, it really doesn't matter about Genesis, since it will do its job anyway.

It's an odd class guide, but seriously, the plan is to take it to 4th job. I seriously don't care after that, since gathering items for skills sux.

Yes, I am a coward. But I'm also poor as hell, and don't feel like wasting all of my money on pots when I could deal with the same enemies myself without any. Hmmmm, so far I'm staying alive okay. That may change at higher levels, butby that point I'll either quit, or suck it up and work through it anyway grinding like crazy on things that are dangerous, but survivable.

dks won't want to party with you if you don't have bless. and if you tell them to stop whining about accuracy problems, they can simply tell you to stop whining about partying them when they reject you

Seriously, the DKs I've partied with haven't been that big a problem. I just tell them I don't have it (it's usually Fighter types that whine the most (and have the least to give, since even Pages do elemental support, freezing enemies so they gimme a chance to attack rather than spam healing), and even them I don't say this to their face), and over the course of fighting they realize I can do okay anyway. The average DK and I usually work well together, since I can heal fast to keep him alive, and his HB supports my survival.