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Thread: Strless VS Low Str

  1. #1

    Default Strless VS Low Str

    I'm currently playing a strless Ranger and is in its early 80s after a couple of weeks. I've been pondering whether or not to add str and go low-str instead of strless. I'm not bothered by the costs of it, but by the damage when both are at its peak performance.

    Assuming the best equipable bow for Strless is Bow of Magical Destruction and the best for Low-Str is Timeless Engaw.
    The Bow of Magical Destruction requires 0 Str which grants Strless additional 121 APs into Dex while offering let's say, an above average WA of 80.
    The Timeless Engaw on the other hand requires 125 Str and offers a WA of 107.

    Strless gets additional 121 AP with 80WA.
    Low-str will lose out 121 AP and has 107WA(27WA over Strless).

    Which actually fares better in the long run assuming fundings are unlimited? I've got a hard time getting the figures right.

    Edits: I also forgot to include, considering the difference in the increment of equipments we'd be using.
    E.g. Strless goes for Dex BR, Dex Shoes, Dex Cape etc.
    While Low-Str goes for Str BR, Str Shoes, Str Cape to make up for the losses.

    Bearing all these factors in mind, which will actually reign in terms of damage over the other? I need serious and valuable feedbacks on this from the community please.
    Last edited by Darkxfervor; 26th July 2010 at 02:03 AM.

  2. #2
    We're in a heap o'trouble Tesiqurasa's Avatar
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    In all reality, Low-Str doesn't lose out on 121 AP. Assuming the standard "strless equips", here's what you DON'T sacrifice.

    15 Str (helmet)
    5 Str (Pendant)
    1 Str (Glasses)
    3 Str (Belt, assuming you can't get an att belt, and Blue Belt is the last "easy" belt)

    This comes to 24 str. Add that to your 4 Str base and you have 28 total Str. Since the lvl 120 bow requires 125 dex, you're "sacrificing" 97 Dex. For an end-game bowmaster, 6 Stats are roughly equal to 1 weapon attack (earlier it's 4:1, and mid it's 5:1). This may change with potential equips, but not by a whole lot. To average them out, let's just say 5:1. That means 97 sacrificed points are about equal to 19.4 weapon attack. Let's round it down to 19 in anticipation for at least minimal % equips.

    Now, the Bow of Magical Destruction gives, as you said, 80 (but 84 ideally). It cannot be Makered. The Reverse Engaw gives 105, but can be makered. So, assuming an Advanced STR lands, that would be 110. It can gain 0-6 extra att through leveling, so let's average it out at 3. This means a Reverse Engaw can pretty easily be 113 attack clean (this was mine, the first try). This is a difference of 29 w/att.

    I could've outright told you low-str is better, but I hope that is a decent enough example.


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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tesiqurasa View Post
    In all reality, Low-Str doesn't lose out on 121 AP. Assuming the standard "strless equips", here's what you DON'T sacrifice.

    15 Str (helmet)
    5 Str (Pendant)
    1 Str (Glasses)
    3 Str (Belt, assuming you can't get an att belt, and Blue Belt is the last "easy" belt)

    This comes to 24 str. Add that to your 4 Str base and you have 28 total Str. Since the lvl 120 bow requires 125 dex, you're "sacrificing" 97 Dex. For an end-game bowmaster, 6 Stats are roughly equal to 1 weapon attack (earlier it's 4:1, and mid it's 5:1). This may change with potential equips, but not by a whole lot. To average them out, let's just say 5:1. That means 97 sacrificed points are about equal to 19.4 weapon attack. Let's round it down to 19 in anticipation for at least minimal % equips.

    Now, the Bow of Magical Destruction gives, as you said, 80 (but 84 ideally). It cannot be Makered. The Reverse Engaw gives 105, but can be makered. So, assuming an Advanced STR lands, that would be 110. It can gain 0-6 extra att through leveling, so let's average it out at 3. This means a Reverse Engaw can pretty easily be 113 attack clean (this was mine, the first try). This is a difference of 29 w/att.

    I could've outright told you low-str is better, but I hope that is a decent enough example.
    First of all, I'd like to express my appreciation for your valued feedback.

    You were very right, but I'm still quite bothered by one thing. How about the bonuses and attribute increments offered by other equipments such as Bathrobe, Shoes and Earrings?
    Assuming all these equipments are all decently scrolled, a Strless BM will have ALL its points(including bonuses) heaped into Dex whereas a Low-Str will actually have most or all of their equipments in Str to compensate for its shortcomings to wield a powerful Bow.

    If we were to take into consideration such factors, who would still reign in the long run?

    Also, thank you for your feedback Tesiqurasa, its of great help. All valuable feedbacks are welcome too.

  4. #4
    Aisu #2100 White Mage Abyss's Avatar
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    Using Dex/6 I decided to see what the W.Attack for your character geared would be.

    The AP of the BM's I used to test this are as follows

    Spoiler!

    Low Str

    Lvl.200

    Spoiler!

    PS: Watch me be stupid wrong with my math. Also there are certain other factors I did not factor in like, Strengths role in the W.Attack Formula, Or Bow Expert or MoN's W.Attack. I'm posting this now for the sake of time. And I'm rather tired.
    Last edited by White Mage Abyss; 26th July 2010 at 11:25 PM.

  5. #5
    We're in a heap o'trouble Tesiqurasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkxfervor View Post
    First of all, I'd like to express my appreciation for your valued feedback.

    You were very right, but I'm still quite bothered by one thing. How about the bonuses and attribute increments offered by other equipments such as Bathrobe, Shoes and Earrings?
    Assuming all these equipments are all decently scrolled, a Strless BM will have ALL its points(including bonuses) heaped into Dex whereas a Low-Str will actually have most or all of their equipments in Str to compensate for its shortcomings to wield a powerful Bow.

    If we were to take into consideration such factors, who would still reign in the long run?

    Also, thank you for your feedback Tesiqurasa, its of great help. All valuable feedbacks are welcome too.
    Anything you can scroll for str, you can scroll for Dex. However, there are VERY few things you can scroll for STR, but a great many things you can scroll for dex. Capes, belts and Overalls are the only things you can scroll for Str. You can scroll overalls, helmets, capes, shoes, face accessories, and belts for Dex. Obviously, your gloves should be scrolled for Att. Scrolling for Str is also nearly twice as expensive as scrolling for Dex.

    Here are the equips I use on my Bowmaster (only mentioning Dex, Str, HP, and W/att)

    124 Attack, 8 Dex, 2 Str, 30 HP Reverse Engaw (Unhammered, fully leveled)
    17 Attack Gloves
    8 Attack Cape
    27 Dex 12 Str 30 HP (1 level left) Reverse Overall
    12 Dex 3 Str Red Arnah Shoes
    9 Dex Nose
    3 Att Belt
    1 Str, 1 Dex, 30 HP Dragon Glasses
    11 Att 6 Dex 5 Str 300 HP MoN
    31 Dex 15 Str Zhelm
    I have MW20 and need it to equip my Bow.
    Other than obtaining some new % equips, I'm pretty set for end-game. My base STR is 80, with its total being 126 before my bow. I cannot reset it further because it will reset down to 124 (because of MW not rounding up).

    Notice, most of the equips I use are scrolled for either Dex or Weapon Attack. The only STR gear I have is normal, or Makered. It would be impossible to reverse that and scroll for STR instead of Dex. If you plan to go this route, it's best to wait until you pass MW20 to equip your end-game bow (unless you plan to reset later). I used a Nisrock until I passed MW20, and then made a Reverse. If you cannot afford to scroll for Weapon Attack on things like Capes or Belts, just scroll for Dex instead.


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  6. #6

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    In this case, may I ask if I were to start adding str, what would be a decent cap for it?

  7. #7
    Aisu #2100 White Mage Abyss's Avatar
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    I capped mine around 70~ and it ended up working out great.

  8. #8
    We're in a heap o'trouble Tesiqurasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkxfervor View Post
    In this case, may I ask if I were to start adding str, what would be a decent cap for it?
    Mine is capped at 80, but I need MW20 to equip my bow. If you scroll heavily for dex or weapon attack, you may need to cap closer to 90. If you scroll heavily for Str, you can keep it capped around 70. Most average BMs will cap anywhere from 60-90 base str.


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