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Thread: Atheism

  1. #1
    Always the Bridesmaid... bulmabriefs144's Avatar
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    Default Atheism

    Quote Originally Posted by Merciless View Post
    nonexistantgod forbid
    Mkay... so you don't believe in God, but you're asking him to forbid. Not only is this kinda funny, but it's sorta a symptom of what's wrong with Atheism.

    Let me start out by saying that I believe the essay structure is crap. You don't need an intro, besides maybe one sentence telling what you're gonna talk about and why (in my experience the only relevant sentence in the first paragraph was the thesis), and your conclusion could simply be the final thought in your body, or you could simply go on until you exhausted yourself (like a normal debate). Having written a bunch of papers, and always getting stuck on writing the opening (which sounded contrived) and the conclusion (which I never could reach), and having to be very clever with the intro (because I wanted to talk about what I wanted to talk about, not only one specific thing), I've decided the entire structure is clunky.

    I wanna talk about why atheism is stupid because although I'm not one of these Bible-bashers that needs for there to be a God, I'm even more sick of hearing atheists whine about how there isn't one. (That's my intro and thesis)

    Having seen alot of people, and wrestled with my own doubts, I can kinda intuit why atheists are the way they are. One the conception of God was probably some nice old man, in the clouds somewhere that was supposed to effectively grant prayers or something, and who was absolutely good. First off, absolute good is a crock, because if absolute good exists "why is evil allowed to exist" and you come to some screwy reasoning about therefore God must not exist (instead of maybe, just maybe God, isn't this perfect ideal). Or maybe it's actually personal, ranging from anything to your dog died, to looking back at your life and having no job, no lover, no family, and no friends, not mention everything being a mess. And sometimes it's cause the people attending church are such narrow-minded a-holes that they condemn their own members unconsciously ("women shouldn't be priests", when you're a woman sitting there dreaming of being like the priest). Yea, I can understand most reasons.

    But it's logically impossible for me to think God doesn't exist. Why? Let's take this Sharpie right here.



    It was created in a factory by people. Could it spontaneously just appear out of thin air? Even scientists say no (no spontaneous generation). Whether you wanna call it Big Bang or whatever, that's what you're calling God. You can't really even say the sentence "God does not exist" without somehow mentioning God. "That deity over there? Nah he doesn't exist."

    So just to be clear, Atheism in the original sense is an invalid concept, but there are plenty of people who are among the "nonbelievers." I myself am actually a Taoist, sorta, so what do I tend to believe according to my dogma?

    God doesn't care, because God (the Tao) is a neutral universal force that can't be bothered whether you live or die. The only thing God is actively involved in is creating existence, maintaining existence, and destroying existence. Whether humans are good or evil, they're still gonna die. Salvation is something you mainly get in this life, and mainly from other people. Oh yea, and living in good conduct with nature (you'll still die though). Humans need a God or gods, that they can personally relate to so they've got some fixed idea in their heads as to what God looks like, but God really isn't like us people. If you pray and it's answered, you're probably getting word from an angel of God (basically a glorified mail carrier), rather than God itself. And that angel of course looks like Emma Thompson. That, and personal human spiritual energy accounts for alot of "prayers answered."

    (Hell no, I'm not making a conclusion. I wanna say more later dammit.)
    Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 4th May 2011 at 07:28 PM.

  2. #2
    I caved Merciless's Avatar
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    There are two types of atheists- agnostic atheists (or light atheists) and heavy atheists

    light atheists claim there is no god because there is no evidence or proof that one does exist. Heavy atheists claim that god does not exist. You can't say "hurr durr you don't have proof that god doesn't exist so we're both stupid" no. No you cannot.

    Big bang does not state that something comes from nothing. Also, no one ever said that something can or cannot come from nothing, that is a claim that has yet to be proven.

    so here's a question for you. Where's your proof?

    Humans need a God or gods, that they can personally relate to so they've got some fixed idea in their heads as to what God looks like, but God really isn't like us people. If you pray and it's answered, you're probably getting word from an angel of God (basically a glorified mail carrier), rather than God itself. And that angel of course looks like Emma Thompson. That, and personal human spiritual energy accounts for alot of "prayers answered."
    also what if I say that in general, countries that have the majority of the population identify themselves as atheist or agnostic atheist or a variation thereof, are economically doing better, have less crime, have less social problems (such as teen pregnancy, abortions, etc), and superior education systems. Case and point, Sweden for one.


    so I ask again, where's your proof. I don't believe in anything that cannot be proven.
    Quote Originally Posted by BarelyAwake View Post
    This thread quickly turned into who all wants to sex up Merciless.

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    Blue bird of friendliness penguinzrock's Avatar
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    i just think atheists who bring up god (or the lack thereof) are just as stupid and ignorant as christians who do the same thing

    here is something i would hear from a christian on a daily basis

    JESUS is LOVE. GOD ASKS not for SUCCESS, but TO TRY!

    here is something i would hear from an atheist on a daily basis

    JESUS SCIENCE is LOVE REAL. GOD ASKS THERE IS PROOF not for SUCCESS GOD but TO TRY for SCIENCE

    as far as i'm concerned, god and science are the same thing.
    maybe science made god
    maybe god made science

    i really don't care
    matter of fact is merciless is just as annoying as the christian club at my school (maybe even worse since there is now an atheist club at my school too)

    even more matter of fact is the only religion you ever see atheists disproving is christianity.
    i've never seen an atheist try to disprove buddhism or taoism or even paganism.
    and since i've never seen it, and there is no proof towards it, atheists don't exist

    THERE YOU DON'T EXIST NOW STOP TALKING ABOUT RELIGION EVERY CHANCE YOU GET
    YOU'RE NOT SMARTER THAN ANYONE BASED ON A LIFE CHOICE YOU'VE MADE
    I SWEAR TO BUDDHA
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    Atheism in the original sense is an invalid concept
    Ye--------ah no. You are silly.
    viva la nagato yuki

  5. #5
    We're in a heap o'trouble Tesiqurasa's Avatar
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    First thing's first
    Quote Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
    Let me start out by saying that I believe the essay structure is crap. You don't need an intro, besides maybe one sentence telling what you're gonna talk about and why (in my experience the only relevant sentence in the first paragraph was the thesis), and your conclusion could simply be the final thought in your body, or you could simply go on until you exhausted yourself (like a normal debate). Having written a bunch of papers, and always getting stuck on writing the opening (which sounded contrived) and the conclusion (which I never could reach), and having to be very clever with the intro (because I wanted to talk about what I wanted to talk about, not only one specific thing), I've decided the entire structure is clunky.
    You need to understand some amount of rhetorical theory before you can understand structure. Structure is an absolute necessity to most written argument (unless you are purposely trying to appeal based on a lack of structure).


    OKAY! The one thing I disagree with is out of the way =D


    The biggest problem I have with Atheists is that many fail to differentiate logic and accuracy. Countless texts have provided strongly logical proofs of a god's existence, but they are not necessarily accurate. When someone asks to prove god's existence, all you have to do is give most of the main arguments from theological analysis. Remember, you can begin with an inaccurate premise and end with an inaccurate, but still completely logical, conclusion. When someone asks to accurately prove his existence, you run into problems.
    That said, you can also logically disprove god's existence, but once again, it can't be definitely accurate.

    I am personally atheist, but I will religiously (teehee) defend religious people. I am, in fact, jealous of many of them, because they have found answers in an otherwise unknown field. Science can explain how emotions develop or how they are tied to an evolutionary process, but it cannot personally explain them in the moment they happen. Emotions are not linear. The existence of a god is a very reasonable explanation behind "irrational" (but still very real) or emotional thoughts, especially for people who do truly believe. It's impossible to deny that truly spiritual people have a sense of rationality in regards to the emotional world.
    It also provides proof (yes, inaccurate, but proof nonetheless) of an afterlife for many. Simply recognizing the world to come is vitally important to some people; they could not live a reasonable life without it.

    I am not defending the institution of organized religion as a whole. I do believe that it has its place, and it can be a very positive influence for people. Most child psychology studies indicate that children with moderate and balanced religious upbringing have very strong moral development.
    However, I must also recognize the atrocities committed under its name in the past, and therefore cannot condone the institution as a whole.
    Last edited by Tesiqurasa; 5th May 2011 at 12:58 AM.


    Spoiler!



  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Merciless
    nonexistantgod forbid
    *insert wall of text over a joke*

    I believe in science, and I make jokes about religion, but not just christianity. It's a good 33% all around between that, radical islam, and buddhism.


    Personally, I think religion has caused more bad than good in the world. I'd like to see how we would have turned out with the only thing in mind being the advancement of the human race and our technology, and not any supernatural/theistic mumbo jumbo.


    @bulma
    I don't see how you can compare the denial of the existance of god to that of a sharpie, a tangible object which does actually exist, and isn't just a spiritual figurehead that has been unavoidably spread through the world's culture.

    Also, once again, merciless was making a joke. He was not literally reaching out for god to forbid. You don't have to make another religion debate thread just because you think it's impossible to be atheist or some ****.
    Last edited by Areks; 5th May 2011 at 12:48 AM.
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  7. #7
    ちび ithrow4luk's Avatar
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    another religion thread
    as much as I love debating shiz like this, it really doesn't belong in the internet


    Spoiler!
    Last edited by ithrow4luk; 5th May 2011 at 12:55 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by kaglover1 View Post
    I was conceived around 4-5am.

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    Daeari Dae314's Avatar
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    So Bulma is a Deist, Merci is an Atheist, and Tesu appears to be Agnostic. So now these three have come into the arena to debate the existence of God (I skipped over the others in this thread b/c I either cannot figure out their stance or all they want is for this thread to end). Why are we doing it this way again -_-?

    I don't understand why Bulma thought it was necessary to make this thread to rag on Atheists. Atheists have it just as hard or maybe harder than anyone with a belief. In order to conclusively prove that no deity exists Atheists must come up with a logically sound proof based on truth that covers and refutes every conceivable way that a deity can exist. No such proof exists; Atheists abide by their beliefs with as little proof as anyone who believes in a deity does. Yet you're attacking him for jokingly professing his belief while at the same time pushing your own belief. You do not hold conclusive proof based on truth that a deity does exist either. You have assumptions based on observation and knowledge. Attacking Merci in the way you did is hypocritical of what you're trying to say.

    Whatever happened to religious toleration? Tolerate it in silence. Merci did not directly attack you; he only stated his opinion. Don't attack him for it as that will only lead to pointless arguments like what happened in this thread. Lets not ban religious discussion (religious discussion is good if it's done well), however lets not attack eachother's beliefs.


  9. #9
    Always the Bridesmaid... bulmabriefs144's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merciless View Post
    light atheists claim there is no god because there is no evidence or proof that one does exist. Heavy atheists claim that god does not exist. You can't say "hurr durr you don't have proof that god doesn't exist so we're both stupid" no. No you cannot.
    I think what I was getting at wasn't proof or disproof that God exists. It's that well, everyone says anarchy is an impossibility, and it's something you do (choosing as a country to simply opt out of government, and rule yourselves). People have a choice over what they do, but for what they believe, I know kids that say "no such thing is as ghosts" over and over and get freaked out in an old house. From my line of thinking anti-theism (that is to believe you can do without religion) is an easier idea to work with than outright atheism.

    Anyone who hasn't should go watch Magic Knight Rayearth. The anime starts out with this seemingly perfect world defended by a single person, the Pillar of the world. But as it turns out the major flaw of this system is that its "god" has no social life and has to continue praying for peace of the country. So the MK are summoned supposedly to save the land, but actually to assist in the Pillar's suicide. In the second second, a new Pillar is chosen, and someone tells our heroes "flowers grow even without a pillar." So when the time comes for a wish, they instead abolish the Pillar system giving it to all people. This is the sort of "atheism" we should be having, one that is less about denying God for the hell of it, and more "we don't need God to be decent to each other."

    Bleh, I'm no Deist. I just have deistic tendencies. I'm closer to a Pantheist.

    Dae it is never necessary to make any thread. But if we acted on that, we'd have no threads. I have three types of threads here in Empty House, when I'm kinda depressed, when I'm genuinely mad at someone, and when I'm not genuinely mad but wanna make a thread "for the heck of it" because of boredom or not enough drama in my life. Guess which one this is?

    I don't see how you can compare the denial of the existance of god to that of a sharpie, a tangible object which does actually exist, and isn't just a spiritual figurehead that has been unavoidably spread through the world's culture.
    *waves Sharpie around*

    The power of permanence compels you!
    Last edited by bulmabriefs144; 5th May 2011 at 04:56 AM.

  10. #10
    I caved Merciless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144 View Post
    I think what I was getting at wasn't proof or disproof that God exists. It's that well, everyone says anarchy is an impossibility, and it's something you do (choosing as a country to simply opt out of government, and rule yourselves). People have a choice over what they do, but for what they believe, I know kids that say "no such thing is as ghosts" over and over and get freaked out in an old house. From my line of thinking anti-theism (that is to believe you can do without religion) is an easier idea to work with than outright atheism.

    Anyone who hasn't should go watch Magic Knight Rayearth. The anime starts out with this seemingly perfect world defended by a single person, the Pillar of the world. But as it turns out the major flaw of this system is that its "god" has no social life and has to continue praying for peace of the country. So the MK are summoned supposedly to save the land, but actually to assist in the Pillar's suicide. In the second second, a new Pillar is chosen, and someone tells our heroes "flowers grow even without a pillar." So when the time comes for a wish, they instead abolish the Pillar system giving it to all people. This is the sort of "atheism" we should be having, one that is less about denying God for the hell of it, and more "we don't need God to be decent to each other."

    Bleh, I'm no Deist. I just have deistic tendencies. I'm closer to a Pantheist.

    Dae it is never necessary to make any thread. But if we acted on that, we'd have no threads. I have three types of threads here in Empty House, when I'm kinda depressed, when I'm genuinely mad at someone, and when I'm not genuinely mad but wanna make a thread "for the heck of it" because of boredom or not enough drama in my life. Guess which one this is?



    *waves Sharpie around*

    The power of permanence compels you!
    y u haet me ;_;

    in all seriousness, I strongly advocate for one to be a skeptic of what they believe. They can believe whatever they want, don't get me wrong, but the way I see it, if you have no reason or justification to believe in something, it can, and probably will be detrimental to rationality. The reason why I don't believe in god or gods is because there is no proof or evidence. I also won't believe that the big bang happened (believe it or not), but I will say that it is the most supported theory for the beginning of the universe, and it is wrong to say otherwise. Does god exist? perhaps, but there is no proof, so why should I believe it?
    Quote Originally Posted by BarelyAwake View Post
    This thread quickly turned into who all wants to sex up Merciless.

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